[Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

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[Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Pedro Alvarez Jr
I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.

I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.
Thanks!

 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Richard DeShong-2
The campus is reviewing options for cloud based file sharing.  Perhaps using
campus services for web hosting and file sharing.  This brings up my
question:

Should the campus provide a basic web hosting, file share service for
departments?  On this list, there have been dept's that described how they
setup a bunch of websites for staff, and students.  I'm not remembering the
technology mentioned, but the poster indicated that it scaled well.

Can anyone comment on where we are related to the campus providing what is
now considered a necessity for departments?

--
Richard DeShong, Information Systems Analyst
Athletic Study Center, UC Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center
510-642-5123 office
925-285-1088 cell
asc.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pedro Alvarez
Jr
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:00 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.

I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.
Thanks!

 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Baril
In reply to this post by Pedro Alvarez Jr
Beta tested it for about 7 months on a Mini. Did not set it up for
multi-user use, though. Did not like it. A little buggy. And, Apple
stripped out a lot of functionality. It comes packaged as a Lion Desktop
add-on - definitely do not like this. I would have like to see it remain
a stand-alone product. Do not know how it would play on an xServe. And,
you can not upgrade over an existing 10.6x server. All and all, I would
not go there, yet.

Roy

On 10/3/2011 12:00 AM, Pedro Alvarez Jr wrote:

> I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
> hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
> well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.
>
> I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
> anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.
> Thanks!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Roy A. Baril
Director of Technology
Graduate School of Journalism
University of California
121 North Gate Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
510-643-9215 -- Work
510-643-9136 -- Fax
925-352-9543 -- Cell


 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Scot Hacker
In reply to this post by Richard DeShong-2
On Oct 3, 2011, at 10:19 AM, Richard DeShong wrote:

> The campus is reviewing options for cloud based file sharing.  Perhaps using
> campus services for web hosting and file sharing.  This brings up my
> question:
>
> Should the campus provide a basic web hosting, file share service for
> departments?  

I consider these to be two very different services. For basic web hosting, right now the campus offers your choice of A) very limited, not very customizable generic web hosting or B) bare metal VPS or colo that leaves you responsible for every layer of the stack. What's completely (and surprisingly) missing is what I consider "standard" web hosting of the variety you'd get for $10/month from any of hundreds (thousands) of outside providers, based on an industry standard hosting control panel and all of the security advantages that come with using extremely battle-hardened tools. cPanel and Plesk are the two leaders in this space, with cPanel out front in numbers (it's definitely my preference).

We (the J-School/KDMC) just went through the process of provisioning a datacenter VPS, obtaining a free .edu cPanel license, installing, configuring, security hardening, migrating, etc. The process took many weeks. If we had obtained the exact same end result from an off-campus cPanel provider we would have had a move-in ready, turnkey system provisioned within hours, and it would have come with free cPanel support.

I've written on this list before about the many advantages of campus-provided cPanel for Operational Excellence, security, lowered administration costs, lower technical barriers for departments with non-basic needs, etc.   I also presented to Micronet on this topic a while back, so I won't re-hash all of my reasoning now. But after the process we just went through, I'm as eager as ever to see the datacenter provide native cPanel (or Plesk) hosting.

As for cloud-based file sharing, that's a completely different and barely related service.

./s


--
Scot Hacker, Webmaster
Knight Digital Media Center
UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism
http://kdmc.berkeley.edu
http://twitter.com/kdmcinfo
http://kdmc.us/like-facebook
http://journalism.berkeley.edu






 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Ryan Lovett
In reply to this post by Baril
(possible thread hijacking...)

On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 10:34:00AM -0700, Roy A. Baril wrote:
> Do not know how it would play on an xServe.

I spoke to an Apple rep over the phone about this and he said that
installing on an Xserve was possible though we haven't done it yet.

> And, you can not upgrade over an existing 10.6x server. All and all, I
> would not go there, yet.

He also said the upgrade path from 10.6 server was to go to the App Store
and purchase the 10.7 server "add on" and it would automatically add in
Lion itself as well.

We have a 10.5 server (not used for web or file) so to get to 10.7 we'd
have to upgrade to 10.6 server first. Alternatively we can do a clean
install of 10.7 and add server.

But do you have a different experience with the upgrade process?

Before we move ahead with any of this we're waiting for Apple to fix
several LDAP bugs.

Ryan

 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Baril
See comments below:

On 10/3/2011 11:01 AM, Ryan Lovett wrote:
> (possible thread hijacking...)
>
> On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 10:34:00AM -0700, Roy A. Baril wrote:
>> Do not know how it would play on an xServe.
> I spoke to an Apple rep over the phone about this and he said that
> installing on an Xserve was possible though we haven't done it yet.
Possible, yes. Successful? Dubious. It does not seem to have an inherent
symbiotic relationship with the hardware as previous versions of Apple
server software. Ask the rep if he knows anyone using it on an xServe.
>
>> And, you can not upgrade over an existing 10.6x server. All and all, I
>> would not go there, yet.
> He also said the upgrade path from 10.6 server was to go to the App Store
> and purchase the 10.7 server "add on" and it would automatically add in
> Lion itself as well.
Again, not advisable, but if you must, make sure you have a backup of
your current server (you will probably need it). I prefer not to do
upgrades to server products, rather I back up my settings and then do a
clean install. This method involves a little more planning and work, but
in the long haul seems to work well every time. And, since all my hard
data is on my raid arrays, the install goes fairly quickly. Again, ask
the rep if he knows anyone who has downloaded the "add on" app and
successfully installed Lion Server over 10.6.
>
> We have a 10.5 server (not used for web or file) so to get to 10.7 we'd
> have to upgrade to 10.6 server first. Alternatively we can do a clean
> install of 10.7 and add server.
Yeah, you do have to start with at least 10.6x.
>
> But do you have a different experience with the upgrade process?
See above.....
>
> Before we move ahead with any of this we're waiting for Apple to fix
> several LDAP bugs.
>
> Ryan
Hope this helps,

Roy

--
Roy A. Baril
Director of Technology
Graduate School of Journalism
University of California
121 North Gate Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
510-643-9215 -- Work
510-643-9136 -- Fax
925-352-9543 -- Cell


 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Tom Holub
In reply to this post by Pedro Alvarez Jr
On 10/3/11 12:00 AM, Pedro Alvarez Jr wrote:
> I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
> hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
> well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.
>
> I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
> anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.

If they're thinking about running multiple services on an all-in-one desktop
machine sitting in someone's office, the server software should be the least
of your worries.

These are commodity services which are available cheaply from various vendors
including IST.

--
Tom Holub ([hidden email], 510-642-9069)
Director of Computing, College of Letters & Science
101.D Durant Hall
<http://LSCR.berkeley.edu/>


 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Ryan Lovett
In reply to this post by Baril
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 11:35:49AM -0700, Roy A. Baril wrote:
> On 10/3/2011 11:01 AM, Ryan Lovett wrote:
> >(possible thread hijacking...)
...

> >He also said the upgrade path from 10.6 server was to go to the App Store
> >and purchase the 10.7 server "add on" and it would automatically add in
> >Lion itself as well.
> Again, not advisable, but if you must, make sure you have a backup
> of your current server (you will probably need it). I prefer not to
> do upgrades to server products, rather I back up my settings and
> then do a clean install. This method involves a little more planning
> and work, but in the long haul seems to work well every time. And,
> since all my hard data is on my raid arrays, the install goes fairly
> quickly. Again, ask the rep if he knows anyone who has downloaded
> the "add on" app and successfully installed Lion Server over 10.6.

Thanks for your feedback Roy. We do clean, unattended installs of our
client machines (and server OSs of other platforms) and we do have backups
of the server. What I'm primarily concerned about is whether cleanly
installed 10.7 server can successfully import its own NetInstall images
from the older release stages or if we'll have to go through the trouble
of using SIU and all of its workflows to recreate them all.

Ryan

 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Burke Bundy
I haven't had any problems using 10.6.x Netinstall and Netrestore images
on Lion Server.  I've tested with a Snow Leopard Server upgraded to Lion
Server and a clean install of Lion Server.  As always YMMV.

Burke



> On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 11:35:49AM -0700, Roy A. Baril wrote:
>> On 10/3/2011 11:01 AM, Ryan Lovett wrote:
>> >(possible thread hijacking...)
> ...
>> >He also said the upgrade path from 10.6 server was to go to the App
>> Store
>> >and purchase the 10.7 server "add on" and it would automatically add in
>> >Lion itself as well.
>> Again, not advisable, but if you must, make sure you have a backup
>> of your current server (you will probably need it). I prefer not to
>> do upgrades to server products, rather I back up my settings and
>> then do a clean install. This method involves a little more planning
>> and work, but in the long haul seems to work well every time. And,
>> since all my hard data is on my raid arrays, the install goes fairly
>> quickly. Again, ask the rep if he knows anyone who has downloaded
>> the "add on" app and successfully installed Lion Server over 10.6.
>
> Thanks for your feedback Roy. We do clean, unattended installs of our
> client machines (and server OSs of other platforms) and we do have backups
> of the server. What I'm primarily concerned about is whether cleanly
> installed 10.7 server can successfully import its own NetInstall images
> from the older release stages or if we'll have to go through the trouble
> of using SIU and all of its workflows to recreate them all.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Ian Crew
In reply to this post by Pedro Alvarez Jr
Hi Pedro:

You might consider looking at the new Research Hub service for your file
sharing needs.  All individuals (current faculty, students, staff) get
10GB of space for their personal needs, and departments can purchase more
for individuals or groups to use.  Even though we've branded it "Research
Hub," anyone on campus is most welcome to use it for whatever work you
need to get done.

At its most basic level, the Research Hub makes it easy to share files
with anyone on campus, either through an easy-to-use web interface or by
mounting it via WebDAV.

It goes a good bit beyond that, however.  One of the coolest features, I
think, is that when you upload common filetypes like PDFs, Office (Word,
PowerPoint, Excel) documents, JPEGs, etc. it generates a full preview of
the document that you can view in the web interface without downloading
the file.  If the document contains text, it also indexes the full text so
you can find the document again, even if you don't remember the filename.
You can also add metadata, comments and tags to make it easier to find and
manage documents.

Beyond that, it also offers some nice collaborative tools such as simple
workflows (for example, review and approve), wikis, discussion forums,
data lists (lists of items like to-do lists), etc.

We also have some interesting projects in progress that should be rolling
out in the next several months.  A couple of examples include:
-The ability to easily invite non-UCB guests to collaborate with you on
Research Hub.
-The ability to send items from the Research Hub to other systems, like
Flickr, Facebook, YouTube, and the California Digital Library.

For more information about all of this, see http://hub.berkeley.edu/about
and feel free to contact [hidden email] if you have any questions.

Hope this helps!

Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub

On Mon, October 3, 2011 12:00 am, Pedro Alvarez Jr wrote:

> I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
> hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
> well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.
>
> I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
> anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.
> Thanks!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Richard DeShong-2
Yes.  A service like Research Hub was exactly what I was talking about.
Thank you Ian.  I'd seen the advertisement for it, but it was talking so
much about "research" and "library", that I didn't think it was intended for
a small department to use as a sharing space.

Now if the campus would step up and offer a cpanel service for dept's
websites, as Scot mentioned, then we'd at least be given the basic tools to
run a dept.
--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst
Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
510-642-5123 office
925-285-1088 cell

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Crew
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:03 PM
To: Pedro Alvarez Jr
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Hi Pedro:

You might consider looking at the new Research Hub service for your file
sharing needs.  All individuals (current faculty, students, staff) get
10GB of space for their personal needs, and departments can purchase more
for individuals or groups to use.  Even though we've branded it "Research
Hub," anyone on campus is most welcome to use it for whatever work you
need to get done.

At its most basic level, the Research Hub makes it easy to share files
with anyone on campus, either through an easy-to-use web interface or by
mounting it via WebDAV.

It goes a good bit beyond that, however.  One of the coolest features, I
think, is that when you upload common filetypes like PDFs, Office (Word,
PowerPoint, Excel) documents, JPEGs, etc. it generates a full preview of
the document that you can view in the web interface without downloading
the file.  If the document contains text, it also indexes the full text so
you can find the document again, even if you don't remember the filename.
You can also add metadata, comments and tags to make it easier to find and
manage documents.

Beyond that, it also offers some nice collaborative tools such as simple
workflows (for example, review and approve), wikis, discussion forums,
data lists (lists of items like to-do lists), etc.

We also have some interesting projects in progress that should be rolling
out in the next several months.  A couple of examples include:
-The ability to easily invite non-UCB guests to collaborate with you on
Research Hub.
-The ability to send items from the Research Hub to other systems, like
Flickr, Facebook, YouTube, and the California Digital Library.

For more information about all of this, see http://hub.berkeley.edu/about
and feel free to contact [hidden email] if you have any questions.

Hope this helps!

Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub

On Mon, October 3, 2011 12:00 am, Pedro Alvarez Jr wrote:

> I'm contemplating a recommendation to a very small campus dept.  Website
> hosting and file sharing are the main requirements; perhaps FTP as
> well.  It will run on a brand new iMac.
>
> I read some disappointing things about Lion Server.  Was wondering if
> anyone has experience installing, using Lion Server.
> Thanks!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Anyone using Lion Server: thoughts?

Ryan Lovett
In reply to this post by Burke Bundy
On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 05:46:49PM -0700, Burke Bundy wrote:
> I haven't had any problems using 10.6.x Netinstall and Netrestore images
> on Lion Server.  I've tested with a Snow Leopard Server upgraded to Lion
> Server and a clean install of Lion Server.  As always YMMV.

Okay, good to know. Thanks for the info Burke.

Ryan

 
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