[Micronet] Browser support and Google's decision to not support IE8

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[Micronet] Browser support and Google's decision to not support IE8

Eli Cochran
Hi folks,

One significant way to increase web application or web site development velocity is to limit the number of supported browsers -- limiting time and effort when testing and bug fixing and allowing the team to develop with a well defined and relatively consistent set of browser features

I'm always looking for a good excuse to stop supporting older browsers, especially versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The CalCentral project decided quite a while back to drop support for IE7.

Recently Google reiterated it's policy to only support "the current and prior major release of Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and Safari on a rolling basis." [1]

The issue is that Internet Explorer 10 launches on Oct. 26th. Which means that, on that day, IE 8 would no longer be a supported browser. The problem is that many people still run Windows XP and IE9 and IE10 do not run on Windows XP. But perhaps that isn't really a problem since Chrome and Firefox both still support XP.  

Since user's who are still on XP and who want to use the campus bConnect from Google tools will need to upgrade or switch browsers, I'm feeling pretty comfortable recommending dropping IE8 as well. But I really want to hear from others as to what their policies are, or will be. 

I'd like to just follow Google's lead.  

- Eli 

P.S. I'm purposefully ignoring mobile in this conversation since the mobile browser scene is an even bigger mess. But the looming need to support mobile browsers makes my desire to limit desktop browser support even more pressing.

. . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .

Eli Cochran
project manager, CalCentral project
Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine De Saint-Exupery













 
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Re: [Micronet] [WebAccess] Browser support and Google's decision to not support IE8

mcstevem
Much as I would love to push IE8 off the bridge and simplify our coding, our audience makes that an untenable idea. For three major campus sites for which I've got current analytics data (the berkeley.edu gateway, the NewsCenter, and the College of Engineering), IE8 is still the most popular single flavor of Internet Explorer in use by our visitors. And even on the most IE-phobic of those sites (the NewsCenter), IE8 still accounts for 7% of total traffic. So with hundreds of thousands of visitors still firmly rooted in the past, we're stuck there as well.

Yes, they could use Firefox or Chrome, but they don't. And our giving them a poor experience on our pages in IE8 isn't likely to lead them to a different browser, but rather to a different website. So we'll continue to support them -- maybe not with pixel perfection, but with full functionality and as much of the design as we can get to work via conditional comments, polyfills and other shims.

~ Steve
Steve McConnell
Web managing editor, UC Berkeley
[hidden email]
510/643.7789
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
UC Berkeley NewsCenter
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
On 10/23/2012 10:04 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:
Hi folks,

One significant way to increase web application or web site development velocity is to limit the number of supported browsers -- limiting time and effort when testing and bug fixing and allowing the team to develop with a well defined and relatively consistent set of browser features

I'm always looking for a good excuse to stop supporting older browsers, especially versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The CalCentral project decided quite a while back to drop support for IE7.

Recently Google reiterated it's policy to only support "the current and prior major release of Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and Safari on a rolling basis." [1]

The issue is that Internet Explorer 10 launches on Oct. 26th. Which means that, on that day, IE 8 would no longer be a supported browser. The problem is that many people still run Windows XP and IE9 and IE10 do not run on Windows XP. But perhaps that isn't really a problem since Chrome and Firefox both still support XP.  

Since user's who are still on XP and who want to use the campus bConnect from Google tools will need to upgrade or switch browsers, I'm feeling pretty comfortable recommending dropping IE8 as well. But I really want to hear from others as to what their policies are, or will be. 

I'd like to just follow Google's lead.  

- Eli 

P.S. I'm purposefully ignoring mobile in this conversation since the mobile browser scene is an even bigger mess. But the looming need to support mobile browsers makes my desire to limit desktop browser support even more pressing.

. . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                     .

Eli Cochran
project manager, CalCentral project
Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine De Saint-Exupery














 
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[Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Bruce Satow
People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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gts
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Re: [Micronet] Browser support and Google's decision to not support IE8

gts
In reply to this post by Eli Cochran
Another way to "way to increase web application or web site development velocity" is to keep it simple. To avoid complex designs that require subtle implementation details, complex formatting, or multiple add-ons. Developers prove their competence by reliable usability and lack of problems, update overhead, and re-training overhead.

greg
Old Fogy Progrmmer

At 10:04 AM 10/23/2012, Eli Cochran wrote:
Hi folks,

One significant way to increase web application or web site development velocity is to limit the number of supported browsers -- limiting time and effort when testing and bug fixing and allowing the team to develop with a well defined and relatively consistent set of browser features.

I'm always looking for a good excuse to stop supporting older browsers, especially versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The CalCentral project decided quite a while back to drop support for IE7.

Recently Google reiterated it's policy to only support "the current and prior major release of Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and Safari on a rolling basis." [1]

The issue is that Internet Explorer 10 launches on Oct. 26th. Which means that, on that day, IE 8 would no longer be a supported browser. The problem is that many people still run Windows XP and IE9 and IE10 do not run on Windows XP. But perhaps that isn't really a problem since Chrome and Firefox both still support XP. 

Since user's who are still on XP and who want to use the campus bConnect from Google tools will need to upgrade or switch browsers, I'm feeling pretty comfortable recommending dropping IE8 as well. But I really want to hear from others as to what their policies are, or will be.

I'd like to just follow Google's lead. 

- Eli

P.S. I'm purposefully ignoring mobile in this conversation since the mobile browser scene is an even bigger mess. But the looming need to support mobile browsers makes my desire to limit desktop browser support even more pressing.

1. http://googleappsupdates.blogspot.com/2012/09/supporting-modern-browsers-internet.html

. . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                    .
Eli Cochran
project manager, CalCentral project
Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Lawrence Sweet
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Bruce Satow
How is the performance?  Cut and paste, printing, PDF generation, interoperability between the desktop and Thinapp pretty good?  If the central campus remote app solution doesn't work efficiently enough, I'll have to investigate your idea.

Many thanks,
Bruce

On 10/24/2012 1:21 PM, Lawrence Sweet wrote:

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Bruce Satow
Wow!  Thinapp is expensive $6k to $8k plus.  Not sure if campus has an agreement with VMware.  Whew!


On 10/24/2012 1:31 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:
How is the performance?  Cut and paste, printing, PDF generation, interoperability between the desktop and Thinapp pretty good?  If the central campus remote app solution doesn't work efficiently enough, I'll have to investigate your idea.

Many thanks,
Bruce

On 10/24/2012 1:21 PM, Lawrence Sweet wrote:

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] [User_Centered_Design] Browser support and Google's decision to not support IE8

dan turner (2A)
In reply to this post by Eli Cochran
What do you guys use to test or just check prototypes across the range of potential devices? Do you take early jQuery Mobile prototypes into PhoneGap Build? Or something else?

On Oct 24, 2012, at 1:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Another way to "way to increase web application or web site development velocity" is to keep it simple. To avoid complex designs that require subtle implementation details, complex formatting, or multiple add-ons. Developers prove their competence by reliable usability and lack of problems, update overhead, and re-training overhead.
>
> greg
> Old Fogy Progrmmer
>
> At 10:04 AM 10/23/2012, Eli Cochran wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> One significant way to increase web application or web site development velocity is to limit the number of supported browsers -- limiting time and effort when testing and bug fixing and allowing the team to develop with a well defined and relatively consistent set of browser features.
>>
>> I'm always looking for a good excuse to stop supporting older browsers, especially versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The CalCentral project decided quite a while back to drop support for IE7.
>>
>> Recently Google reiterated it's policy to only support "the current and prior major release of Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and Safari on a rolling basis." [1]
>>
>> The issue is that Internet Explorer 10 launches on Oct. 26th. Which means that, on that day, IE 8 would no longer be a supported browser. The problem is that many people still run Windows XP and IE9 and IE10 do not run on Windows XP. But perhaps that isn't really a problem since Chrome and Firefox both still support XP.  
>>
>> Since user's who are still on XP and who want to use the campus bConnect from Google tools will need to upgrade or switch browsers, I'm feeling pretty comfortable recommending dropping IE8 as well. But I really want to hear from others as to what their policies are, or will be.
>>
>> I'd like to just follow Google's lead.  
>>
>> - Eli
>>
>> P.S. I'm purposefully ignoring mobile in this conversation since the mobile browser scene is an even bigger mess. But the looming need to support mobile browsers makes my desire to limit desktop browser support even more pressing.
>>
>> 1. http://googleappsupdates.blogspot.com/2012/09/supporting-modern-browsers-internet.html 
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . .  .  .   .    .      .         .              .                    .
>> Eli Cochran
>> project manager, CalCentral project
>> Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley
>>
>> "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
>>     - Antoine De Saint-Exupery
> ----------------------------------------------
> This message was sent to the UC Berkeley User-Centered Design Discussion mailing list.
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> This list is a forum to discuss various user-centered design topics, including:
> -     - obtaining advice on using UCD techniques to improve products or services
> -     - feedback on new designs
> -     - advice or suggestions for solving tough design problems
> -     - sharing user-centered design news, information, or articles of interest here at UC Berkeley
> -
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dan turner
MIMS 2011
School of Information at UC Berkeley
415.606.4811
www.twoangstroms.com


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Harriet Johnson
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow

Lawrence:

 

Are your Thinapps streaming from a server or pushed full to the end-users desktop?  How are they patched?

 

Thanks

Harriet

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 1:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

How is the performance?  Cut and paste, printing, PDF generation, interoperability between the desktop and Thinapp pretty good?  If the central campus remote app solution doesn't work efficiently enough, I'll have to investigate your idea.

Many thanks,
Bruce

On 10/24/2012 1:21 PM, Lawrence Sweet wrote:

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Lawrence Sweet

Harriet,

 

They were employed as “one-time” use appliances in response to an unannounced, last minute need.

 

We are still evaluating use case scenarios for the longer term, and it is likely we would elect to:

 

·         Work them into our bi-annual disk clone deployments (ghostcasted).

·         Deploy via file share for unplanned application support.

 

We already stream via App-V; thinApps complement this by offering a more architecturally simple deployment (no AD integration, etc) and also some capability enhancements, among other things.

 

Lawrence

 

AP II

ECSM/HAAS

UCB

510.868.8858

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Harriet Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 10:09 AM
To: 'Bruce Satow'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

Lawrence:

 

Are your Thinapps streaming from a server or pushed full to the end-users desktop?  How are they patched?

 

Thanks

Harriet

 

From: [hidden email] [hidden email] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 1:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

How is the performance?  Cut and paste, printing, PDF generation, interoperability between the desktop and Thinapp pretty good?  If the central campus remote app solution doesn't work efficiently enough, I'll have to investigate your idea.

Many thanks,
Bruce

On 10/24/2012 1:21 PM, Lawrence Sweet wrote:

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Aron Roberts
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Bruce Satow <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wow!  Thinapp is expensive $6k to $8k plus.  Not sure if campus has an agreement with VMware.  Whew!

Some recent info on VMware Thinapp licensing, via John Wuorenmaa of the BLC on September 11, 2012:

http://micronet-at-uc-berkeley.840177.n3.nabble.com/Micronet-IDE-Hard-drive-moved-to-external-enclosure-missing-files-from-desktop-tp4025724p4025736.html

(Yes, it appears that two distinct subject threads have been intermingled here in the Micronet archives ...)

FYI,
Aron Roberts
IST - Research Technologies
 



On 10/24/2012 1:31 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:
How is the performance?  Cut and paste, printing, PDF generation, interoperability between the desktop and Thinapp pretty good?  If the central campus remote app solution doesn't work efficiently enough, I'll have to investigate your idea.

Many thanks,
Bruce

On 10/24/2012 1:21 PM, Lawrence Sweet wrote:

We have solved this problem locally by running VMware Thinapp instances of IE8 over Win 7 Enterprise.

 

I believe recipes exist to virtualize IE6,7,8 and perhaps beyond on Thinapp.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-2348" value="+15106432348" target="_blank">(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-2348" value="+15106432348" target="_blank">(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



 
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--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-2348" value="+15106432348" target="_blank">(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Bruce Satow
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow
I'm hoping that the remoteapp solution works.  One of my concerns is security.  If the remoteapp is running IE8 to enable the web apps, wouldn't it be still vulnerable on the server side? 

For example, I don't know how locked down the remoteapp will be, but will the user be able to access other websites through that same interface?  If so, isn't there a potential risk factor especially if interactivity is needed between the desktop and the app?

Also can multiple remoteapp instances be run simultaneously? 


On 10/24/2012 12:00 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:
People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



 
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--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

paul rivers
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


The vulnerable version of the browser would be locked down so it could
only access specific sites, such as BAIRS.  Visiting non-whitelisted
sites with the browser would not be possible.   For general purpose
web use, the individual should use the browser local to their system,
which presumably could then be a fully patched browser.

Yes, multiple RemoteApp instances can be run at the same time.  If the
two apps happen to be hosted on the same remote terminal server, both
apps run over that single connection.

Regards,
Paul


On 10/25/2012 03:41 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:

> I'm hoping that the remoteapp solution works.  One of my concerns
> is security.  If the remoteapp is running IE8 to enable the web
> apps, wouldn't it be still vulnerable on the server side?
>
> For example, I don't know how locked down the remoteapp will be,
> but will the user be able to access other websites through that
> same interface?  If so, isn't there a potential risk factor
> especially if interactivity is needed between the desktop and the
> app?
>
> Also can multiple remoteapp instances be run simultaneously?
>
>
> On 10/24/2012 12:00 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:
>> People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP
>> cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are
>> stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.
>> Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less
>> secure than Windows 7.
>>
>> The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to
>> Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older
>> browsers. For campus administrative work computers,  users who
>> did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old
>> versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy,
>> ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer
>> browser versions.
>>
>> Considering that many campus departments have very limited
>> computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are
>> forced to modernize.
>>
>>
>> -- *Bruce Satow* University of California at Berkeley Space
>> Sciences Laboratory 7 Gauss Way Berkeley, California 94720-7450
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> (510)
>> 643-2348
>>
>> /Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>
> -- *Bruce Satow* University of California at Berkeley Space
> Sciences Laboratory 7 Gauss Way Berkeley, California 94720-7450
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> (510)
> 643-2348
>
> /Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes/
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched
> on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among
> others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have
> known you in the past.
>

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Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

Michael Chung
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow

Bruce,

 

Disclaimer: I’m in no way affiliated with the group putting together the BAIRS RemoteApp service and may not be aware of other limitations that preclude any of the below recommendations. That being said… J

 

A number of different things could be done to lock down a RemoteApp service (Paul already mentioning application level policies to lock down the browser). Some other layers of security might include:

 

1)      Bring up the terminal servers in campus RFC 1918 address space.  This would ensure that the servers were not routable from off campus.

 

2)      IPSec rules could be configured on the Terminal Servers to limit outbound access to certain ‘trusted’ addresses/subnets.

 

3)      If these terminal servers are brought up in the campus data center, all outbound traffic from a given subnet could be restricted to campus only subnets using the managed firewall service. This would ensure that RemoteApp instances of IE8 were only able to connect to campus addresses.

 

As an example, several of our VM’s hosted in the IS&T ESX service are configured in 1918 address space. Our RFC1918 subnet secured so outbound traffic to non-campus subnets is not permitted; in order to obtain Windows Updates and access certain websites off campus, we use an IS&T managed proxy service (ISA).

 

With regards to server-client interaction: Interaction between the RemoteApp session and the client desktop is controlled by Remote Desktop Services—the potential risk of an IE8 vulnerability on a terminal server being used to exploit a connecting RemoteApp client is low.

 

While multiple RemoteApp instances is technically possible, features of Remote Desktop Services (particularly the RD Connection Broker) may limit users to a single session for a given Terminal Server farm. I’m of the opinion that limiting users to a single instance is a better strategy—we’ve seen problems when customers initiate multiple Terminal Server sessions—they often are not able to reconnect to the specific session they want. You should be able to spawn multiple browser windows and tabs from a single RemoteApp instance of IE8 so I’m not sure I see a strong argument for supporting allowing multiple instances.

 

Cheers,

 

Michael Chung

Systems Administrator

Haas Enterprise Computing & Service Management

[hidden email] | 510-643-3887

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Satow
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] XP and IE8 issues

 

I'm hoping that the remoteapp solution works.  One of my concerns is security.  If the remoteapp is running IE8 to enable the web apps, wouldn't it be still vulnerable on the server side? 

For example, I don't know how locked down the remoteapp will be, but will the user be able to access other websites through that same interface?  If so, isn't there a potential risk factor especially if interactivity is needed between the desktop and the app?

Also can multiple remoteapp instances be run simultaneously? 

On 10/24/2012 12:00 PM, Bruce Satow wrote:

People are using IE8 not because it is popular.  ( Win XP  cannot support higher than  IE8. )  It is because people are stuck using XP for various reasons - mainly compatibility issues.    Studies indicate that Windows XP is about 4 to 5 times less secure than Windows 7.

The conundrum is that campus user may not upgrade from XP to Win7 because the campus web apps are stuck on running on older browsers.   For campus administrative work computers,  users who did move to Windows 7 are still stuck on using IE8 and old versions of Firefox because campus web apps such as BFS, BearBuy, ImageNow, BAIRS, CalAnswers do not function properly on newer browser versions.  

Considering that many campus departments have very limited computer resources they will just stay on XP until they are forced to modernize.
 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

cid:image001.gif@01CDB2CB.0E4BB440




 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

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