[Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

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[Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Beth Muramoto
A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Beth


***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Ian Crew
I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.

I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.

I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:

        1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
        2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.  
        3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
        4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
        5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
  6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
        7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
        8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
        9) Restart again.

Hope that helps.

Ian

On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Beth
>
>
> ***********************************************
> Beth Muramoto
> Computer Resource Specialist
> Graduate School of Education
> University of California, Berkeley
> 1650 Tolman Hall
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
> - Tom Peters
>
> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>
> -Stephen Covey
>
> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>
> -Thomas Jefferson
>
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
University of California, Berkeley
2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
http://hub.berkeley.edu


 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Beth Muramoto
In reply to this post by Beth Muramoto
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. I have REALLY old versions of it from using it on other OSes. I guess I can buy a more recent one that will work on the newer OSes.

Beth


On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Beth,
> It's not truly a defragger, but the best, and basically only non-apple
> tool a Mac user needs is DiskWarrior.
>
> Best,
> Duane
>
>
>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about
>> defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to
>> observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be
>> slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he
>> has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I
>> thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is,
>> what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Beth
>>
>>
>> ***********************************************
>> Beth Muramoto
>> Computer Resource Specialist
>> Graduate School of Education
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>
>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>> - Tom Peters
>>
>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage
>> to say 'no' to other things."
>>
>> -Stephen Covey
>>
>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have
>> of it.
>>
>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> ***********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
>> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
>> visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
>> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>
>

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Beth Muramoto
In reply to this post by Ian Crew
Ian,

Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.

Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.

Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look into it.

OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped my mind.

Thanks again!

Beth


On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:

> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.
>
> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>
> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>
> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.  
> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
> 9) Restart again.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Ian
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Beth
>>
>>
>> ***********************************************
>> Beth Muramoto
>> Computer Resource Specialist
>> Graduate School of Education
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>
>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>> - Tom Peters
>>
>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>
>> -Stephen Covey
>>
>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>
>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> ***********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
> Ian Crew
> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
> University of California, Berkeley
> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Scot Hacker
I was under the impression that there was zero-to-little benefit to defragging in OS X. Apple's kb article certainly says that:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375

(though the article is marked "no longer updated").

More:
http://macs.about.com/od/faq1/f/defrag.htm
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/829/do-macs-need-to-be-defragmented

Lots of good reasons mentioned in those articles re: why it's just not helpful (and therefore not included) in OS X.

./s


On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Beth Muramoto wrote:

> Ian,
>
> Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
>
> Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look into it.
>
> OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped my mind.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Beth
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
>
>> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.
>>
>> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>>
>> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>>
>> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
>> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.  
>> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
>> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
>> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
>> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
>> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
>> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
>> 9) Restart again.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Beth
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>> Beth Muramoto
>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>> Graduate School of Education
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>>
>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>> - Tom Peters
>>>
>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>
>>> -Stephen Covey
>>>
>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>
>>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>> Ian Crew
>> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
>> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
>> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>>
>
> ***********************************************
> Beth Muramoto
> Computer Resource Specialist
> Graduate School of Education
> University of California, Berkeley
> 1650 Tolman Hall
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
> - Tom Peters
>
> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>
> -Stephen Covey
>
> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>
> -Thomas Jefferson
>
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

__________________________
Scot Hacker
Senior Software Developer @ CalCentral
Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley

[hidden email]
(510) 292-5586
__________________________








 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Ian Crew
I think it's generally true that it's not needed in Mac OS X, but I believe the exception to the rule is if you have very little free space on the drive (< 10% free), and even more so if your drive is essentially full (<10GB free).  In those cases, it's hard or impossible for the auto-defragging routines in the Mac OS to do their thing.

Also, it's a highly biased source, but see http://www.coriolis-systems.com/iDefrag.php

Ian

On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Scot Hacker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was under the impression that there was zero-to-little benefit to defragging in OS X. Apple's kb article certainly says that:
>
> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375
>
> (though the article is marked "no longer updated").
>
> More:
> http://macs.about.com/od/faq1/f/defrag.htm
> http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/829/do-macs-need-to-be-defragmented
>
> Lots of good reasons mentioned in those articles re: why it's just not helpful (and therefore not included) in OS X.
>
> ./s
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Beth Muramoto wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>> Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
>>
>> Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look into it.
>>
>> OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped my mind.
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> Beth
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
>>
>>> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.
>>>
>>> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>>>
>>> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>>>
>>> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
>>> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.  
>>> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
>>> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
>>> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
>>> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
>>> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
>>> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
>>> 9) Restart again.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>> Beth Muramoto
>>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>>>
>>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>>> - Tom Peters
>>>>
>>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>>
>>>> -Stephen Covey
>>>>
>>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>>
>>>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>>
>>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>>
>>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>
>>> Ian Crew
>>> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
>>> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
>>> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>
>> ***********************************************
>> Beth Muramoto
>> Computer Resource Specialist
>> Graduate School of Education
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>
>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>> - Tom Peters
>>
>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>
>> -Stephen Covey
>>
>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>
>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> ***********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
> __________________________
> Scot Hacker
> Senior Software Developer @ CalCentral
> Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley
>
> [hidden email]
> (510) 292-5586
> __________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
University of California, Berkeley
2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
http://hub.berkeley.edu


 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Beth Muramoto
I was under the same notion as Scott, but again it's been years since I last thought about it (perhaps for this very reason) and I admit that other than Disk Warrior and Tech Tool (and I've only used these with OS9 and earlier versions of OSX), I have used  very little to deal with anything of a defragging nature with any of the Apple OSes. I remember it was a utility in the early Windows (95 and 98) OSes, but not even sure if it exists for Windows either.

Thanks to both of you for giving me ideas as well as clarifying defragging when it comes to recent Apple OSes.  

I'll send the references that Scott mentioned to the user so he's aware.

Beth




On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Ian Crew wrote:

> I think it's generally true that it's not needed in Mac OS X, but I believe the exception to the rule is if you have very little free space on the drive (< 10% free), and even more so if your drive is essentially full (<10GB free).  In those cases, it's hard or impossible for the auto-defragging routines in the Mac OS to do their thing.
>
> Also, it's a highly biased source, but see http://www.coriolis-systems.com/iDefrag.php
>
> Ian
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Scot Hacker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression that there was zero-to-little benefit to defragging in OS X. Apple's kb article certainly says that:
>>
>> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375
>>
>> (though the article is marked "no longer updated").
>>
>> More:
>> http://macs.about.com/od/faq1/f/defrag.htm
>> http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/829/do-macs-need-to-be-defragmented
>>
>> Lots of good reasons mentioned in those articles re: why it's just not helpful (and therefore not included) in OS X.
>>
>> ./s
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Beth Muramoto wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>> Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look into it.
>>>
>>> OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped my mind.
>>>
>>> Thanks again!
>>>
>>> Beth
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.
>>>>
>>>> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>>>>
>>>> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
>>>> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.  
>>>> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
>>>> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
>>>> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
>>>> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
>>>> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
>>>> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
>>>> 9) Restart again.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>> Beth Muramoto
>>>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>>>>
>>>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>>>> - Tom Peters
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>>>
>>>>> -Stephen Covey
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>
>>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>>>
>>>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Ian Crew
>>>> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
>>>> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
>>>> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>> Beth Muramoto
>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>> Graduate School of Education
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>>
>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>> - Tom Peters
>>>
>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>
>>> -Stephen Covey
>>>
>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>
>>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>> __________________________
>> Scot Hacker
>> Senior Software Developer @ CalCentral
>> Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> (510) 292-5586
>> __________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
> Ian Crew
> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
> University of California, Berkeley
> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Guy D. VINSON
I would be looking at the activity monitor for cpu usage and disc space issues... I have seen a lot of slow machines turn out to be just too little ram trying to run too many apps.
---
Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
510-842-7199




On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was under the same notion as Scott, but again it's been years since I last thought about it (perhaps for this very reason) and I admit that other than Disk Warrior and Tech Tool (and I've only used these with OS9 and earlier versions of OSX), I have used  very little to deal with anything of a defragging nature with any of the Apple OSes. I remember it was a utility in the early Windows (95 and 98) OSes, but not even sure if it exists for Windows either.

Thanks to both of you for giving me ideas as well as clarifying defragging when it comes to recent Apple OSes.

I'll send the references that Scott mentioned to the user so he's aware.

Beth




On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Ian Crew wrote:

> I think it's generally true that it's not needed in Mac OS X, but I believe the exception to the rule is if you have very little free space on the drive (< 10% free), and even more so if your drive is essentially full (<10GB free).  In those cases, it's hard or impossible for the auto-defragging routines in the Mac OS to do their thing.
>
> Also, it's a highly biased source, but see http://www.coriolis-systems.com/iDefrag.php
>
> Ian
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Scot Hacker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression that there was zero-to-little benefit to defragging in OS X. Apple's kb article certainly says that:
>>
>> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375
>>
>> (though the article is marked "no longer updated").
>>
>> More:
>> http://macs.about.com/od/faq1/f/defrag.htm
>> http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/829/do-macs-need-to-be-defragmented
>>
>> Lots of good reasons mentioned in those articles re: why it's just not helpful (and therefore not included) in OS X.
>>
>> ./s
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Beth Muramoto wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>> Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look into it.
>>>
>>> OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped my mind.
>>>
>>> Thanks again!
>>>
>>> Beth
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size), but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my head.
>>>>
>>>> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it, yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>>>>
>>>> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way), but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>>>>
>>>>    1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish completely.
>>>>    2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both the disk and the permissions.
>>>>    3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level, so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even smarter.
>>>>    4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
>>>>    5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
>>>>    6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
>>>>    7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long time to boot the first time.
>>>>    8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
>>>>    9) Restart again.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>> Beth Muramoto
>>>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>> Phone:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-0203" value="+15106430203">(510) 643-0203
>>>>> Fax:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-6239" value="+15106436239">(510) 643-6239
>>>>>
>>>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>>>>                           - Tom Peters
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>>>
>>>>>                           -Stephen Covey
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>                           -Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>
>>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>>>
>>>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Ian Crew
>>>> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
>>>> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
>>>> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>> Beth Muramoto
>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>> Graduate School of Education
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> Phone:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-0203" value="+15106430203">(510) 643-0203
>>> Fax:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-6239" value="+15106436239">(510) 643-6239
>>>
>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>>                             - Tom Peters
>>>
>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>>>
>>>                             -Stephen Covey
>>>
>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>>>
>>>                             -Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>> __________________________
>> Scot Hacker
>> Senior Software Developer @ CalCentral
>> Educational Technology Services, UC Berkeley
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20292-5586" value="+15102925586">(510) 292-5586
>> __________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
> Ian Crew
> Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
> Information Services and Technology-Research and Content Technologies
> University of California, Berkeley
> 2195 Hearst Ave, Second Floor
> http://hub.berkeley.edu
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-0203" value="+15106430203">(510) 643-0203
Fax:  <a href="tel:%28510%29%20643-6239" value="+15106436239">(510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************





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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Richard DeShong-2
In reply to this post by Beth Muramoto
Beth,
I have done tests and can confirm that it helps, but with the caveat that
the process needs to do a significant amount of work to be noticed.
Defraggers do two things, both of which can help.  The obvious function is
taking the parts of a file that are spread out over the drive, and putting
them into contiguous sectors/blocks on the drive.  The other function is
they can move a bunch of files, that are stored at various locations, and
move them into a single area on the disk, thus grouping them all together.
This latter function can significantly improve performance on a disk that
used to be fairly full, and then you deleted a bunch of files to make room.
The original files are still scattered over the disk, so putting them all
together will really help.

The reason it typically helps, and doesn't help on an SSD, is that the time
consumer on standard disks is the head movement.  It takes a comparatively
long time to move the heads.  And then after moving, it has to wait for the
heads to settle down before reliably reading data.  So if your data is
spread out over the entire disk, then you have long, time consuming head
movements.  If it's compacted into a small area of the disk, then you have
short head movements.
--
Richard DeShong,  Systems Analyst
Athletic Study Center,  U.C. Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center,  Berkeley, CA 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu



From: Beth Muramoto Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:57 PM
Ian,
Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if
I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look
into it.
OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of
it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to
him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that
I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped
my mind.
Thanks again!


On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on
disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size),
but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my
head.
> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it,
yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their
tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way),
but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time
machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish
completely.
> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both
the disk and the permissions.  
> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level,
so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up
with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even
smarter.
> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long
time to boot the first time.
> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
> 9) Restart again.
> Hope that helps.


> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked
about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to
observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be
slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has
and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought
I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps
can be used to accomplish it.

>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>> Beth Muramoto
>> Computer Resource Specialist
>> Graduate School of Education
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239


 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Beth Muramoto
Thanks, Richard for the description and info. I remember back in the day on a old Windows machine, you got to see the "defragging" in action as it "gathered" data and aligned them into colorful linear collections.

I've been getting great information from everyone and thanks to all of you. It confirmed and debunked some vague memories about defragging  I had as well as why it may not really benefit this user. Maybe a good reinstall of the OS is in order.

Thanks everyone! I now have some things to try and advise. As always, I truly appreciate everyone's input.

Beth


On Aug 8, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Richard DeShong wrote:

> Beth,
> I have done tests and can confirm that it helps, but with the caveat that
> the process needs to do a significant amount of work to be noticed.
> Defraggers do two things, both of which can help.  The obvious function is
> taking the parts of a file that are spread out over the drive, and putting
> them into contiguous sectors/blocks on the drive.  The other function is
> they can move a bunch of files, that are stored at various locations, and
> move them into a single area on the disk, thus grouping them all together.
> This latter function can significantly improve performance on a disk that
> used to be fairly full, and then you deleted a bunch of files to make room.
> The original files are still scattered over the disk, so putting them all
> together will really help.
>
> The reason it typically helps, and doesn't help on an SSD, is that the time
> consumer on standard disks is the head movement.  It takes a comparatively
> long time to move the heads.  And then after moving, it has to wait for the
> heads to settle down before reliably reading data.  So if your data is
> spread out over the entire disk, then you have long, time consuming head
> movements.  If it's compacted into a small area of the disk, then you have
> short head movements.
> --
> Richard DeShong,  Systems Analyst
> Athletic Study Center,  U.C. Berkeley
> 164 Chavez Student Center,  Berkeley, CA 94720-4220
> 510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu
>
>
>
> From: Beth Muramoto Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:57 PM
> Ian,
> Hee, yes, I wondered myself if defragging really did make a difference or if
> I was just hoping and then my imagination did the rest.
> Yes, it's a regular, run of the mill hard drive.
> Thanks for the suggestion of iDefrag and the great instructions. I'll look
> into it.
> OH! And I'd forgotten about using Disk Utility although from the sounds of
> it, Disk Utility probably won't help his situation, but I'll suggest it to
> him anyway. Thanks for reminding me of that. I guess I should be happy that
> I haven't had to suggest that to anyone for a long time and thus it slipped
> my mind.
> Thanks again!
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Ian Crew wrote:
>> I use iDefrag from time to time, and it seems to help a bit (especially on
> disks with very little free space, as in less than 10% of the disk size),
> but I've never bothered to measure if it's a real improvement, or just in my
> head.
>> I assume you're referring to a MacBook with a regular hard drive in it,
> yes?  It's not necessary for machines with SSDs.
>> I've never had a problem with iDefrag screwing things up (I used their
> tool to make a boot DVD with iDefrag on it, and only ever use it that way),
> but here's my process when I do use it, just to be sure:
>> 1) Back up the whole disk using Time Machine (right-click on time
> machine in the dock and choose "Back up now"), and wait for it to finish
> completely.
>> 2) Use Apple's Disk Utility to check, and if necessary repair, both
> the disk and the permissions.  
>> 3) Back up again (iDefrag messes with things at a pretty low level,
> so backups are critical), and wait for it to finish completely.  Backing up
> with something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner would probably be even
> smarter.
>> 4) Boot off the iDefrag DVD
>> 5) Run iDefrag using the "Full Defrag" algorithm
>> 6) Wait a loooong time (it's taken 36 hours or more at times)
>> 7) Boot off the internal disk, and don't worry when it takes a long
> time to boot the first time.
>> 8) Use Apple's disk utility to check the disk and permissions again
>> 9) Restart again.
>> Hope that helps.
>
>
>> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked
> about defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to
> observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could be
> slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM he has
> and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I thought
> I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it is, what apps
> can be used to accomplish it.
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>> Beth Muramoto
>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>> Graduate School of Education
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
>
>
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> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
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***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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Re: [Micronet] Defragging? Is there an app for that?

Duane P. Straub
In reply to this post by Beth Muramoto
Beth,
Your tip on Activity Monitor is excellent, it is the only app I have
launch at startup and run 100% of the time. You probably already know, be
sure to select "All Processes" from the popup menu. My default view is
System Memory, sorted by CPU.

Most any time I see a Mac running slowly, it is due to Flash. On older
(Leopard) systems, I use Safari and ClickToFlash - what a sanity saver!
ClickToFlash runs up to Safari version 5.0.6.

ClickToPlugin can be used similarly with Snow Leopard & Safari 5.1.7 and
newer OS & Safari, although I've taken a different approach now: Anytime
Activity Monitor shows me Flash running in Safari, I use Activity Monitor
to kill the process. When I truly want to run Flash, to see a youtube movie
for instance, I view it in Firefox or Chrome and then quit that browser.

Duane

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 13:50:11 -0700, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. I have REALLY old versions of it from
> using it on other OSes. I guess I can buy a more recent one that will
work

> on the newer OSes.
>
> Beth
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Hi Beth,
>> It's not truly a defragger, but the best, and basically only non-apple
>> tool a Mac user needs is DiskWarrior.
>>
>> Best,
>> Duane
>>
>>
>>> A user is complaining about slowness on his Macbook laptop and asked
>>> about
>>> defragging. I've given him suggestions like using Activity Monitor to
>>> observe what applications are spiking and using resources  that could
be
>>> slowing things down as well as getting information about how much RAM
he
>>> has and how many applications he's juggling simultaneously etc., but I
>>> thought I'd ask if defragging a hard drive even necessary and if it
is,

>>> what apps can be used to accomplish it.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Beth
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>> Beth Muramoto
>>> Computer Resource Specialist
>>> Graduate School of Education
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> 1650 Tolman Hall
>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>>> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>>>
>>> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>>> - Tom Peters
>>>
>>> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the
courage

>>> to say 'no' to other things."
>>>
>>> -Stephen Covey
>>>
>>> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I
>>> have
>>> of it.
>>>
>>> -Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>>> server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>>> unsubscribe
>>> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,
>>> please
>>> visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>>> and
>>> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
>>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ***********************************************
> Beth Muramoto
> Computer Resource Specialist
> Graduate School of Education
> University of California, Berkeley
> 1650 Tolman Hall
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
> - Tom Peters
>
> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage
> to say 'no' to other things."
>
> -Stephen Covey
>
> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I
have
> of it.
>
> -Thomas Jefferson
>
> ***********************************************

 
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