[Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

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[Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Michael Black
Hi,

   [the first five paragraphs are context—my questions are in the sixth, for those who want to get straight to the point]

    We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched, so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or most of their work-related email communication.

    When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.

    Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed out.

    We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a set of objects—one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).

   In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a complete copy of the communications.

   •Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of official museum communications? 

Thanks,

Michael Black
Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
   

 
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

jon kuroda-2
Michael,

You may find some useful info here:

https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274

--Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:

> Hi,
>
>    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> for those who want to get straight to the point]
>
>     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> most of their work-related email communication.
>
>     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
>
>     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> out.
>
>     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
>
>    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> complete copy of the communications.
>
>    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> official museum communications?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Black
> Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology

>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

jon kuroda-2
To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:

> Michael,
>
> You may find some useful info here:
>
> https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
>
> --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> >
> >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > most of their work-related email communication.
> >
> >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> >
> >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > out.
> >
> >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> >
> >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > complete copy of the communications.
> >
> >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > official museum communications?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael Black
> > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
>
> >  
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Richard DeShong-2
The access-to-communication info mentioned is for data stored by the University.  If I understood the o.p., the employees were using their personal email accounts (gmail was mentioned) - meaning *not* berkeley.edu.

I think you would need to get University lawyers involved so they can make the request of Google (or any other email provider).


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:07 AM, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> Michael,
>
> You may find some useful info here:
>
> https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
>
> --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> >
> >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > most of their work-related email communication.
> >
> >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> >
> >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > out.
> >
> >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> >
> >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > complete copy of the communications.
> >
> >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > official museum communications?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael Black
> > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

jon kuroda-2
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
To fill out my quota of 3 emails in a row to micronet in a day:

>From digging up other notes:

https://kb.berkeley.edu/ist/page.php?id=23029

Contact IT Policy <[hidden email]>

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:07:41AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:

> To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
> Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
> being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.
>
> --Jon
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > You may find some useful info here:
> >
> > https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
> >
> > --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> > >
> > >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > > most of their work-related email communication.
> > >
> > >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> > >
> > >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > > out.
> > >
> > >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> > >
> > >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > > complete copy of the communications.
> > >
> > >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > > official museum communications?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Michael Black
> > > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
> >
> > >  
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> > >
> > > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> > >
> > > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> > >
> > > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
> >
> >
> >  
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Lisa Ho
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Michael,

Jon is on target in pointing to the ECP for ownership of campus email accounts (I assume by personal email accounts you meant their individual @berkeley.edu account rather than a consumer @gmail.com).  Outside of intellectual property considerations, the UC Regents own campus electronic communication resources, including campus email accounts.

ECP consent requirements and non-consensual access approval procedures do not apply after termination or death of an employee, but when possible we do extend the same courtesies to former employees.  The IT Policy office handles such instances ([hidden email]). 

Guidance is available here:

Best,
Lisa

-- 

Lisa Ho
IT Policy Manager
Information Security and Policy
University of California, Berkeley
510.642.2422



On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:07 AM, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> Michael,
>
> You may find some useful info here:
>
> https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
>
> --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> >
> >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > most of their work-related email communication.
> >
> >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> >
> >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > out.
> >
> >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> >
> >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > complete copy of the communications.
> >
> >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > official museum communications?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael Black
> > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Michael Black
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Thanks, Jon and Richard. I actually *was* referring to the individual's berkeley.edu account (I was calling it personal because my understanding is that it is owned/controlled by the employee, not by the unit they work for)—sorry for the confusion.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:21 AM, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
To fill out my quota of 3 emails in a row to micronet in a day:

>From digging up other notes:

https://kb.berkeley.edu/ist/page.php?id=23029

Contact IT Policy <[hidden email]>

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:07:41AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
> Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
> being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.
>
> --Jon
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > You may find some useful info here:
> >
> > https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
> >
> > --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> > >
> > >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > > most of their work-related email communication.
> > >
> > >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> > >
> > >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > > out.
> > >
> > >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> > >
> > >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > > complete copy of the communications.
> > >
> > >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > > official museum communications?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Michael Black
> > > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
> >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> > >
> > > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> > >
> > > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> > >
> > > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Richard DeShong-2
Well that makes it very straightforward.  You used "gmail", instead of "bmail", so I thought you were talking about their personal account, not their berkeley.edu account.

It's also very common for organizations to make discovery search requests of ex-employees personal accounts.

I also remember a bio-tech company where I setup their email server, but the "main scientist" refused to use the new company email address and insisted on continuing to use his personal account.  He considered his email address as part of his identity, and that was more important than any company with which he might be involved.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Michael Black <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Jon and Richard. I actually *was* referring to the individual's berkeley.edu account (I was calling it personal because my understanding is that it is owned/controlled by the employee, not by the unit they work for)—sorry for the confusion.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:21 AM, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
To fill out my quota of 3 emails in a row to micronet in a day:

>From digging up other notes:

https://kb.berkeley.edu/ist/page.php?id=23029

Contact IT Policy <[hidden email]>

--Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:07:41AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
> Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
> being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.
>
> --Jon
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > You may find some useful info here:
> >
> > https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
> >
> > --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >    [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
> > > for those who want to get straight to the point]
> > >
> > >     We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
> > > email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
> > > accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
> > > so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
> > > most of their work-related email communication.
> > >
> > >     When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
> > > voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
> > > personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
> > >
> > >     Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
> > > registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
> > > outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
> > > disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
> > > museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
> > > many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
> > > out.
> > >
> > >     We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
> > > set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
> > > months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
> > > not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
> > > which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
> > > correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
> > >
> > >    In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
> > > and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
> > > complete copy of the communications.
> > >
> > >    *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
> > > employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
> > > surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
> > > to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
> > > official museum communications?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Michael Black
> > > Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
> >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> > >
> > > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> > >
> > > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> > >
> > > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


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--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Jon Broshious-2
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Michael,

I'm so sorry to hear about your registrar.

Thank you for spreading the word about using departmentally owned
accounts. It only takes moments to create one, and moments to change the
owner, or grant access to other people. It is much easier than trying to
pry information from a personal account when somebody leaves UCB.


Answers to your questions.
IT Policy makes the decision about access to the personal Cal email
account of any user. And there is a form for making an access request at
the website mentioned.
Fill out the request form for limited access. Ask that we add a vacation
message directing people to a departmental account. Vacation responses
work for the 90 day grace period employees get after their employee ID
expires.
https://security.berkeley.edu/content/can-i-access-former-employees-email-or-files

[hidden email] will no doubt give you access for a day to collect
the email you seek, and the Drive documents you seek. If there is a
specific email, or set of emails, or a document or documents being
sought, it can be delivered.

It will take some effort, but is not onerous by any means. When IT
Policy tells me what to provide, I'll work with you.


Who owns a personal account?
The university owns the account and everything in it. Policy is to not
share that information with anybody. And the email account is cancelled
as soon as every employee, student and affiliate ID associated with the
owner is fully extinguished. 30 days after that, the email portion is
removed. Files in Drive remain in place, and the calendar is left in
place. They will eventually be removed as well at a much later date.

Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her surviving spouse, or to someone else?
Outside of intellectual property considerations, the UC Regents own campus electronic communication resources, including campus email
accounts. No person takes ownership of it.


Is there any way for our department to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of official museum communications? I answered that one first, since it is an actionable item. IT Policy will work with you to get you the email and documents you require.


--
Jon Broshious
Information Services and Technology
Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
[hidden email]




On 1/29/2014 10:07 AM, jon kuroda wrote:

> To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
> Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
> being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.
>
> --Jon
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
>> Michael,
>>
>> You may find some useful info here:
>>
>> https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
>>
>> --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>     [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
>>> for those who want to get straight to the point]
>>>
>>>      We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
>>> email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
>>> accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
>>> so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
>>> most of their work-related email communication.
>>>
>>>      When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
>>> voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
>>> personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
>>>
>>>      Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
>>> registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
>>> outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
>>> disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
>>> museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
>>> many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
>>> out.
>>>
>>>      We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
>>> set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
>>> months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
>>> not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
>>> which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
>>> correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
>>>
>>>     In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
>>> and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
>>> complete copy of the communications.
>>>
>>>     *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
>>> employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
>>> surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
>>> to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
>>> official museum communications?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael Black
>>> Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
>>>  
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>  
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Jon Broshious
Information Services and Technology
Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
[hidden email]


 
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Re: [Micronet] Department access to email on death of employee?

Michael Black
Thank you all. Thanks to the collective wisdom of Micronet and the kind respondents, I've gone from confused to quite clear on this issue in under 30 minutes. Go Micronet!

Michael


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Jon Broshious <[hidden email]> wrote:
Michael,

I'm so sorry to hear about your registrar.

Thank you for spreading the word about using departmentally owned
accounts. It only takes moments to create one, and moments to change the
owner, or grant access to other people. It is much easier than trying to
pry information from a personal account when somebody leaves UCB.


Answers to your questions.
IT Policy makes the decision about access to the personal Cal email
account of any user. And there is a form for making an access request at
the website mentioned.
Fill out the request form for limited access. Ask that we add a vacation
message directing people to a departmental account. Vacation responses
work for the 90 day grace period employees get after their employee ID
expires.
https://security.berkeley.edu/content/can-i-access-former-employees-email-or-files

[hidden email] will no doubt give you access for a day to collect
the email you seek, and the Drive documents you seek. If there is a
specific email, or set of emails, or a document or documents being
sought, it can be delivered.

It will take some effort, but is not onerous by any means. When IT
Policy tells me what to provide, I'll work with you.


Who owns a personal account?
The university owns the account and everything in it. Policy is to not
share that information with anybody. And the email account is cancelled
as soon as every employee, student and affiliate ID associated with the
owner is fully extinguished. 30 days after that, the email portion is
removed. Files in Drive remain in place, and the calendar is left in
place. They will eventually be removed as well at a much later date.

Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her surviving spouse, or to someone else?
Outside of intellectual property considerations, the UC Regents own campus electronic communication resources, including campus email
accounts. No person takes ownership of it.


Is there any way for our department to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of official museum communications? I answered that one first, since it is an actionable item. IT Policy will work with you to get you the email and documents you require.


--
Jon Broshious
Information Services and Technology
Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
[hidden email]




On 1/29/2014 10:07 AM, jon kuroda wrote:
> To expand upon this, my recollection is that the CalMail, oops, I mean bMail,
> Team had process in place to deal with this sort of thing, but it was part of
> being in compliance with the Berkeley implementation of the UC-system ECP.
>
> --Jon
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:04:54AM -0800, jon kuroda wrote:
>> Michael,
>>
>> You may find some useful info here:
>>
>> https://security.berkeley.edu/content/approval-access-berkeley-campus-electronic-communications?destination=node/274
>>
>> --Jon (who had to research this some years ago under different circumstances)
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 09:57:15AM -0800, Michael Black wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>     [the first five paragraphs are context--my questions are in the sixth,
>>> for those who want to get straight to the point]
>>>
>>>      We've been trying for a few years to get our staff to use departmental
>>> email accounts for departmental business and leave their personal bmail
>>> accounts for non-work email, but the resistance is surprisingly entrenched,
>>> so many of our staff still use their personal bmail accounts for all or
>>> most of their work-related email communication.
>>>
>>>      When staff have moved on to other jobs, we've asked them to consider
>>> voluntarily giving us an email archive of work-related email from their
>>> personal bmail accounts, and that's worked well, until now.
>>>
>>>      Two months ago, one of our staff members died unexpectedly. She was a
>>> registrar at our museum, and therefore, was involved in many exchanges with
>>> outside donors and potential donors concerning legal ownership and intended
>>> disposition of objects. She usually printed these out and filed them in
>>> museum files once the conversations were concluded, but she was involved in
>>> many such negotiations before her death that were not concluded or printed
>>> out.
>>>
>>>      We now find ourselves in a delicate negotiation over the ownership of a
>>> set of objects--one which the deceased staff member took lead on for several
>>> months before her death. She produced written documentation of much, but
>>> not all, of this exchange, but there are a couple of points of contention
>>> which we strongly suspect could be settled by an examination of her email
>>> correspondence (which was done from her personal bmail account).
>>>
>>>     In this particular situation, we cannot just approach the outside party
>>> and ask him for a copy of all relevant email and expect to receive a
>>> complete copy of the communications.
>>>
>>>     *Questions: Who "owns" the personal bmail archives of a deceased
>>> employee? Does ownership pass to the campus, to the department, to her
>>> surviving spouse, or to someone else? Is there any way for our department
>>> to get an archive of this email so that we don't lose important pieces of
>>> official museum communications?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael Black
>>> Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Jon Broshious
Information Services and Technology
Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
[hidden email]



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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.