[Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

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[Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Gabriel Gonzalez


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE
Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
From: Gabriel Gonzalez <[hidden email]>
To: Michael Sinatra <[hidden email]>
CC: [hidden email]

I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.

-Gabriel

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:

> On 12/21/11 18:18, Greg Merritt wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://calmessages.berkeley.edu/archive/message/25865
>
> Oh dear Lord, three things I say:
>
> 1. A moment of silence for Calmail, please.  UC Berkeley once had the
> best-designed and best-run email system in higher ed.  I suspect that
> the reason some campuses had such a "successful" transition to Goofle
> was that they started from a lower bar.  It is thanks to talented
> individuals who ran it for many years and those who stepped
> in--outside of their job duties--after the Thanksgiving Disaster to
> resurrect it.
>
> 2. Google Calendar: It's better than Oracle Calendar!(TM)
>
> 3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
> mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
> will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
> those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
> where I am going with this...
>
> michael
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

gts
CalMail RIP indeed, after 30 years I will feel a bit disoriented.

When you say forwarding of berkeley.edu will stay on campus but not use MX to Google, do you mean that berkeley.edu will have a forwarding service that I can configure to a destination of my choice so that incoming mail will not be routed through Google?
Or that forwarding will always be to Google and any specific forwarding will occur there?

Will outgoing mail still be from berkeley.edu? If so will there be problems because the sender is not in the berkeley.edu domain?

greg

At 09:15 AM 12/22/2011, Gabriel Gonzalez wrote:

>Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE
>Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
>From: Gabriel Gonzalez <[hidden email]>
>To: Michael Sinatra <[hidden email]>
>
>I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
>@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL. Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.
>
>-Gabriel


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Bill Clark

> Will outgoing mail still be from berkeley.edu? If so will there be
> problems because the sender is not in the berkeley.edu domain?

In theory, no.  Modern mail architecture uses a special kind of DNS record
called an "SPF" record that announces the servers that are allowed to send
email from a particular domain.

In practice, yes.  Some particularly paranoid ISPs will block mail
regardless of SPF records, if anything looks even remotely fishy, by their
own personal definition of fishy.

However, it's most likely not something worth worrying about.. the portion
of uber-paranoid mail administrators is probably vanishingly small, and
getting smaller all the time as the SPF framework is more widely adopted.
It certainly won't be an issue for any large mail providers.

-Bill Clark


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Michael Sinatra-3
On 12/22/11 11:37, Bill Clark wrote:
>
>> Will outgoing mail still be from berkeley.edu? If so will there be
>> problems because the sender is not in the berkeley.edu domain?
>
> In theory, no.  Modern mail architecture uses a special kind of DNS record
> called an "SPF" record that announces the servers that are allowed to send
> email from a particular domain.

bzzt!  Thank you for playing, but SPF is sooo 2001.  DKIM is your new
friend.

> In practice, yes.  Some particularly paranoid ISPs will block mail
> regardless of SPF records, if anything looks even remotely fishy, by their
> own personal definition of fishy.
>
> However, it's most likely not something worth worrying about.. the portion
> of uber-paranoid mail administrators is probably vanishingly small, and
> getting smaller all the time as the SPF framework is more widely adopted.
> It certainly won't be an issue for any large mail providers.

I no longer work with them, but I believe that Hostmaster can support
SPF and DKIM records (they're both implemented in DNS as TXT records)
for various departments and groups.  I don't know how easy it will be
for them to support lots of ad-hoc DKIM and SPF records for individuals,
though.

Will there still be an authenticated SMTP relay for campus?  That would
also solve Greg's issue.  What about hosts that need a "smart" relay and
currently use Calmail?

michael

 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Bill Clark

> bzzt!  Thank you for playing, but SPF is sooo 2001.
> DKIM is your new friend.

/hangs head in shame.

> Will there still be an authenticated SMTP relay for campus?

I'd hope so, and would be surprised if there weren't.  I don't see why it
should necessarily be an either/or thing.. as long as the volume were low,
it would seem straightforward enough to maintain some locally-hosted mail
infrastructure, at the very least as a backup in case Google turns evil
and/or incompetent overnight.

-Bill Clark


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Michael Sinatra-3
On 12/22/11 15:59, Bill Clark wrote:

>
>> bzzt!  Thank you for playing, but SPF is sooo 2001.
>> DKIM is your new friend.
>
> /hangs head in shame.
>
>> Will there still be an authenticated SMTP relay for campus?
>
> I'd hope so, and would be surprised if there weren't.  I don't see why it
> should necessarily be an either/or thing.. as long as the volume were low,
> it would seem straightforward enough to maintain some locally-hosted mail
> infrastructure, at the very least as a backup in case Google turns evil
> and/or incompetent overnight.

Good point.  Many CIOs I have talked to recently have mentioned the need
for exit/re-in-sourcing strategies "just in case."

michael


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

William
Google no longer touts its famous "Don't Be Evil" motto.  It has
supposedly been quietly dropped.
http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2009/04/google_quietly.php

On 12/22/2011 4:02 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:

> On 12/22/11 15:59, Bill Clark wrote:
>>> bzzt!  Thank you for playing, but SPF is sooo 2001.
>>> DKIM is your new friend.
>> /hangs head in shame.
>>
>>> Will there still be an authenticated SMTP relay for campus?
>> I'd hope so, and would be surprised if there weren't.  I don't see why it
>> should necessarily be an either/or thing.. as long as the volume were low,
>> it would seem straightforward enough to maintain some locally-hosted mail
>> infrastructure, at the very least as a backup in case Google turns evil
>> and/or incompetent overnight.
> Good point.  Many CIOs I have talked to recently have mentioned the need
> for exit/re-in-sourcing strategies "just in case."
>
> michael
>
>
>  
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


--
William Chen
Systems Administrator
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California, Berkeley
3-1032


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Devin Jones
It's worth mentioning that this article appears to have been intended as
an April Fools joke.

FWIW, the slogan in question continues to appear on google's website:
http://investor.google.com/corporate/code-of-conduct.html

-devin

On 12/22/2011 4:25 PM, William wrote:

> Google no longer touts its famous "Don't Be Evil" motto.  It has
> supposedly been quietly dropped.
> http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2009/04/google_quietly.php
>
> On 12/22/2011 4:02 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
>> On 12/22/11 15:59, Bill Clark wrote:
>>>> bzzt!  Thank you for playing, but SPF is sooo 2001.
>>>> DKIM is your new friend.
>>> /hangs head in shame.
>>>
>>>> Will there still be an authenticated SMTP relay for campus?
>>> I'd hope so, and would be surprised if there weren't.  I don't see why it
>>> should necessarily be an either/or thing.. as long as the volume were low,
>>> it would seem straightforward enough to maintain some locally-hosted mail
>>> infrastructure, at the very least as a backup in case Google turns evil
>>> and/or incompetent overnight.
>> Good point.  Many CIOs I have talked to recently have mentioned the need
>> for exit/re-in-sourcing strategies "just in case."
>>
>> michael
>>
>>
>>  
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>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>

--

Devin Jones
Manager of Software Development
UC Berkeley School of Law -- Boalt Hall
510-643-3015
[hidden email]

 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Rune Stromsness
In reply to this post by Gabriel Gonzalez
In December, 2011 Michael had asked on Micronet:

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
[...]
> 3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
> mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
> will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
> those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
> where I am going with this...
>
> michael


Gabriel Gonzalez from the OE Mail/Calendar project had answered:

On 22-Dec-11 09:15, Gabriel Gonzalez wrote:

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE
> Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
> From: Gabriel Gonzalez <[hidden email]>
> To: Michael Sinatra <[hidden email]>
> CC: [hidden email]
>
> I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
> @berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
> Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.
>
> -Gabriel
>
Back on 24-Sep-2012 Greg had asked on Micronet:

> On 24-Sep-12 17:51, [hidden email] wrote:
> I have not heard any details of the email migration to Google. So it is time to repeat my questions.
[...]
>> If I opt for forwarding, will forwarding be handled by Google? My understanding is that forwarding will continue to be handled by UCB, but I would like a definite answer from those implementing the changes.
>>
>> greg

I can't find that that question was ever answered in Micronet email.




Last week when some of my colleagues started migrating to bMail they had
seen behavior that did not match with my expectations based on Gabriel's
email last December -- the only forwarding option they seemed to have
was having their email show up at a UC Berkeley MX server, then go to
Google servers, then they could configure forwarding on the Google side
to get mail to go somewhere else.


My query to the bConnected help desk from last week got answered today
with confirmation -- they said:

>> Entered on 11/07/2012 at 09:47:28 PST (GMT-0800) by [hidden email]:
>> On 31-Oct-12 08:58, Rune Stromsness wrote:
> [...]
>> a) Is Gabe's answer in Micronet from last December still correct and
>> we can setup forwarding such that forwarded email goes directly from the
>> MX infrastructure on campus (using the familiar IP ranges of
>> 169.229.218.128/25 and 2607:f140:0:1000::/64 for firewall filters) to
>> the mailserver for the forwarding address?
>>
>> b) Are there any limitations on the "From" address in the envelope
>> when doing authenticated sending through the Google SMTP server? (For
>> instance, after authenticating to smtp.gmail.com on TCP 587 can I send
>> an email message that has "From: [hidden email]" or "From:
>> [hidden email]"?) Or will calmail.berkeley.edu still accept
>> outoing authenticated SMTP on port 587 for the indefinite future? The
>> documentation is unclear on that
>> (https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3081 says to use
>> calmail.berkeley.edu port 587 for SMTP, while
>> https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3079 says to use
>> smtp.gmail.com)
>>
>> Thanks for any information,
>>
>> Rune
>
> Entered on 11/07/2012 at 14:15:26 PST (GMT-0800) by Alex Yu:
> Dear Rune,
>  
> Your [hidden email] will be forwarding from Google's servers. You will also still be able to send out from the CalMail SMTP as long as you user your CalMail passphrase.  
>  
> If you have any additional questions or if we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by email or phone any time.
>  
> Regards,
>  
>
>
> Alex Yu
> Application Support Center
> [hidden email]
> (510) 642-8500 Option 2 and Press 2 for bCal

I'm sharing this here in case this is a surprise to anyone else who
might have been assuming based on previous discussions on the Micronet
list that various CalMail accounts might still be able to be set to
forward directly from the long-understood and well-defined CalMail
subnets to our own servers for processing.

I'll be re-working my plans to figure out other was to make things work
for my use cases now.


Rune
--
Rune Stromsness
Network Operations & Services
Telecommunications
University of California, Berkeley
[hidden email]


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Bruce Satow
I would like it if bMail didn't forward incoming email to Calmail.  I don't know how to turn that off.

Since I can log into bMail directly and use it directly, I think that stopping the forwarding of incoming bMail to your Calmail inbox would be a good first step toward a migration process.

:)

-Bruce


On 11/7/2012 3:26 PM, Rune Stromsness wrote:
In December, 2011 Michael had asked on Micronet:

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
[...]
3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
where I am going with this...

michael

Gabriel Gonzalez from the OE Mail/Calendar project had answered:

On 22-Dec-11 09:15, Gabriel Gonzalez wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE 
Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
From: Gabriel Gonzalez [hidden email]
To: Michael Sinatra [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]

I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.

-Gabriel

Back on 24-Sep-2012 Greg had asked on Micronet:

On 24-Sep-12 17:51, [hidden email] wrote:
I have not heard any details of the email migration to Google. So it is time to repeat my questions.
[...]
If I opt for forwarding, will forwarding be handled by Google? My understanding is that forwarding will continue to be handled by UCB, but I would like a definite answer from those implementing the changes.

greg
I can't find that that question was ever answered in Micronet email.




Last week when some of my colleagues started migrating to bMail they had
seen behavior that did not match with my expectations based on Gabriel's
email last December -- the only forwarding option they seemed to have
was having their email show up at a UC Berkeley MX server, then go to
Google servers, then they could configure forwarding on the Google side
to get mail to go somewhere else.


My query to the bConnected help desk from last week got answered today
with confirmation -- they said:

Entered on 11/07/2012 at 09:47:28 PST (GMT-0800) by [hidden email]:
On 31-Oct-12 08:58, Rune Stromsness wrote:
[...]
a) Is Gabe's answer in Micronet from last December still correct and
we can setup forwarding such that forwarded email goes directly from the
MX infrastructure on campus (using the familiar IP ranges of
169.229.218.128/25 and 2607:f140:0:1000::/64 for firewall filters) to
the mailserver for the forwarding address?

b) Are there any limitations on the "From" address in the envelope
when doing authenticated sending through the Google SMTP server? (For
instance, after authenticating to smtp.gmail.com on TCP 587 can I send
an email message that has "From: [hidden email]" or "From:
[hidden email]"?) Or will calmail.berkeley.edu still accept
outoing authenticated SMTP on port 587 for the indefinite future? The
documentation is unclear on that
(https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3081 says to use
calmail.berkeley.edu port 587 for SMTP, while
https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3079 says to use
smtp.gmail.com)

Thanks for any information,

Rune
Entered on 11/07/2012 at 14:15:26 PST (GMT-0800) by Alex Yu:
Dear Rune, 
 
Your [hidden email] will be forwarding from Google's servers. You will also still be able to send out from the CalMail SMTP as long as you user your CalMail passphrase.  
 
If you have any additional questions or if we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by email or phone any time.
 
Regards,
 


Alex Yu
Application Support Center
[hidden email]
(510) 642-8500 Option 2 and Press 2 for bCal

I'm sharing this here in case this is a surprise to anyone else who
might have been assuming based on previous discussions on the Micronet
list that various CalMail accounts might still be able to be set to
forward directly from the long-understood and well-defined CalMail
subnets to our own servers for processing.

I'll be re-working my plans to figure out other was to make things work
for my use cases now.


Rune


 
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--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Michael Sinatra-3
In reply to this post by Gabriel Gonzalez
 > Entered on 11/07/2012 at 14:15:26 PST (GMT-0800) by Alex Yu:
 > Dear Rune,
 >
 > Your email will be forwarding from Google's servers. You will also
still be able to send out from the CalMail SMTP as long as you user your
CalMail passphrase.
 >
 > If you have any additional questions or if we can be of further
assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by email or phone any time.
 >
 > Regards,

Rune:

First, thanks for following up and presenting the answer to micronet.  I
am surprised that gts's question was never answered, especially
considering that the answer has changed since Gabriel answered my
question last December.

Second, let's go back to my original question:

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
[...]
 > 3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
 > mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
 > will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
 > those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
 > where I am going with this...
 >
 > michael

The point of the question was to understand whether email would still
traverse Google's infrastructure if we didn't want our mail hosted on
Google.  Gabriel's answer, specifically, "Our plan is to keep the
@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX," indicates TWO things, both
of which answer my question:

1. Email forwarding is handled on campus owned, located, and operated
servers.

2. The DNS MX records will not point directly to Google.

Both #1 and #2 are consistent with the way LBNL handles their
Google-outsourced email, as that organization was specifically mentioned
in the question and answer.

The response you got today contradicted Gabriel's public response on
Micronet.  Today's response implies #2 but also implies !#1.  That is a
*significant* change from the previous public statement on the matter.
I consider Gabriel to be a reliable and authoritative source, so I am a
bit confused as to why the answer given to you is different and why, if
it does represent a change of plans, that change was not communicated to
Micronet.

michael

 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Mimi Mugler-2
In reply to this post by Bruce Satow
Bruce,
You've got it a bit backwards. Your mail is not being forwarded from bMail to CalMail. Rather your CalMail mail is not being forwarded to bMail. The first step in the pre-migration checklist is to start forwarding mail from CalMail to bMail. As we've noted, your mail is not fully functional. While you can send mail from bMail, you cannot yet receive mail at bMail. Once your mail migration is underway, your mail delivery will be set to bMail. We've only enabled mail for now so that people can set up forwarding, authorizations, etc. We don't recommend that people begin using bMail as their mailservice until their mail has migrated, and their incoming mail is being forwarded to bMail.

Best,
Mimi

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Bruce Satow <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would like it if bMail didn't forward incoming email to Calmail.  I don't know how to turn that off.

Since I can log into bMail directly and use it directly, I think that stopping the forwarding of incoming bMail to your Calmail inbox would be a good first step toward a migration process.

:)

-Bruce



On 11/7/2012 3:26 PM, Rune Stromsness wrote:
In December, 2011 Michael had asked on Micronet:

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
[...]
3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
where I am going with this...

michael
Gabriel Gonzalez from the OE Mail/Calendar project had answered:

On 22-Dec-11 09:15, Gabriel Gonzalez wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE 
Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
From: Gabriel Gonzalez [hidden email]
To: Michael Sinatra [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]

I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.

-Gabriel

Back on 24-Sep-2012 Greg had asked on Micronet:

On 24-Sep-12 17:51, [hidden email] wrote:
I have not heard any details of the email migration to Google. So it is time to repeat my questions.
[...]
If I opt for forwarding, will forwarding be handled by Google? My understanding is that forwarding will continue to be handled by UCB, but I would like a definite answer from those implementing the changes.

greg
I can't find that that question was ever answered in Micronet email.




Last week when some of my colleagues started migrating to bMail they had
seen behavior that did not match with my expectations based on Gabriel's
email last December -- the only forwarding option they seemed to have
was having their email show up at a UC Berkeley MX server, then go to
Google servers, then they could configure forwarding on the Google side
to get mail to go somewhere else.


My query to the bConnected help desk from last week got answered today
with confirmation -- they said:

Entered on 11/07/2012 at 09:47:28 PST (GMT-0800) by [hidden email]:
On 31-Oct-12 08:58, Rune Stromsness wrote:
[...]
a) Is Gabe's answer in Micronet from last December still correct and
we can setup forwarding such that forwarded email goes directly from the
MX infrastructure on campus (using the familiar IP ranges of
169.229.218.128/25 and 2607:f140:0:1000::/64 for firewall filters) to
the mailserver for the forwarding address?

b) Are there any limitations on the "From" address in the envelope
when doing authenticated sending through the Google SMTP server? (For
instance, after authenticating to smtp.gmail.com on TCP 587 can I send
an email message that has "From: [hidden email]" or "From:
[hidden email]"?) Or will calmail.berkeley.edu still accept
outoing authenticated SMTP on port 587 for the indefinite future? The
documentation is unclear on that
(https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3081 says to use
calmail.berkeley.edu port 587 for SMTP, while
https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3079 says to use
smtp.gmail.com)

Thanks for any information,

Rune
Entered on 11/07/2012 at 14:15:26 PST (GMT-0800) by Alex Yu:
Dear Rune, 
 
Your [hidden email] will be forwarding from Google's servers. You will also still be able to send out from the CalMail SMTP as long as you user your CalMail passphrase.  
 
If you have any additional questions or if we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by email or phone any time.
 
Regards,
 


Alex Yu
Application Support Center
[hidden email]
(510) 642-8500 Option 2 and Press 2 for bCal
I'm sharing this here in case this is a surprise to anyone else who
might have been assuming based on previous discussions on the Micronet
list that various CalMail accounts might still be able to be set to
forward directly from the long-understood and well-defined CalMail
subnets to our own servers for processing.

I'll be re-working my plans to figure out other was to make things work
for my use cases now.


Rune


 
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--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mimi Mugler
bConnected Team (UC Berkeley Google Apps for Education)
510.642.6157



 
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Re: [Micronet] Fwd: Re: [ITMF] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)

Bruce Satow
Ahhh... thanks for the explanation Mimi ! 

I've manually migrated all my email folders over to my bMail account.   There's nothing left in my campus Calmail account.  It's empty now.

Is there a way for me to then forward my incoming Calmail messages to my bMail account? 

Thanks!
:)


On 11/7/2012 5:38 PM, Mimi MUGLER wrote:
Bruce,
You've got it a bit backwards. Your mail is not being forwarded from bMail to CalMail. Rather your CalMail mail is not being forwarded to bMail. The first step in the pre-migration checklist is to start forwarding mail from CalMail to bMail. As we've noted, your mail is not fully functional. While you can send mail from bMail, you cannot yet receive mail at bMail. Once your mail migration is underway, your mail delivery will be set to bMail. We've only enabled mail for now so that people can set up forwarding, authorizations, etc. We don't recommend that people begin using bMail as their mailservice until their mail has migrated, and their incoming mail is being forwarded to bMail.

Best,
Mimi

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Bruce Satow <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would like it if bMail didn't forward incoming email to Calmail.  I don't know how to turn that off.

Since I can log into bMail directly and use it directly, I think that stopping the forwarding of incoming bMail to your Calmail inbox would be a good first step toward a migration process.

:)

-Bruce



On 11/7/2012 3:26 PM, Rune Stromsness wrote:
In December, 2011 Michael had asked on Micronet:

On 12/21/2011 6:53 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
[...]
3. A real technical question: Will the @berkeley.edu forwarding
mechanism (i.e. the MXes) be on campus, as is the case at LBNL?  Or
will everything go to a google MX where it will then be forwarded for
those individuals who don't want their mail on Google?  You can see
where I am going with this...

michael
Gabriel Gonzalez from the OE Mail/Calendar project had answered:

On 22-Dec-11 09:15, Gabriel Gonzalez wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ITMF] [Micronet] GOOGLE!!! (was Re: Update on OE 
Productivity Suite Mail/Calendar Project)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:02 -0800
From: Gabriel Gonzalez [hidden email]
To: Michael Sinatra [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]

I will speak to the real technical question. Our plan is to keep the
@berkeley.edu forwarding mechanism on campus, as is the case at LBNL.
Our plan is *not* to change to a google MX.

-Gabriel

Back on 24-Sep-2012 Greg had asked on Micronet:

On 24-Sep-12 17:51, [hidden email] wrote:
I have not heard any details of the email migration to Google. So it is time to repeat my questions.
[...]
If I opt for forwarding, will forwarding be handled by Google? My understanding is that forwarding will continue to be handled by UCB, but I would like a definite answer from those implementing the changes.

greg
I can't find that that question was ever answered in Micronet email.




Last week when some of my colleagues started migrating to bMail they had
seen behavior that did not match with my expectations based on Gabriel's
email last December -- the only forwarding option they seemed to have
was having their email show up at a UC Berkeley MX server, then go to
Google servers, then they could configure forwarding on the Google side
to get mail to go somewhere else.


My query to the bConnected help desk from last week got answered today
with confirmation -- they said:

Entered on 11/07/2012 at 09:47:28 PST (GMT-0800) by [hidden email]:
On 31-Oct-12 08:58, Rune Stromsness wrote:
[...]
a) Is Gabe's answer in Micronet from last December still correct and
we can setup forwarding such that forwarded email goes directly from the
MX infrastructure on campus (using the familiar IP ranges of
169.229.218.128/25 and 2607:f140:0:1000::/64 for firewall filters) to
the mailserver for the forwarding address?

b) Are there any limitations on the "From" address in the envelope
when doing authenticated sending through the Google SMTP server? (For
instance, after authenticating to smtp.gmail.com on TCP 587 can I send
an email message that has "From: [hidden email]" or "From:
[hidden email]"?) Or will calmail.berkeley.edu still accept
outoing authenticated SMTP on port 587 for the indefinite future? The
documentation is unclear on that
(https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3081 says to use
calmail.berkeley.edu port 587 for SMTP, while
https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=3079 says to use
smtp.gmail.com)

Thanks for any information,

Rune
Entered on 11/07/2012 at 14:15:26 PST (GMT-0800) by Alex Yu:
Dear Rune, 
 
Your [hidden email] will be forwarding from Google's servers. You will also still be able to send out from the CalMail SMTP as long as you user your CalMail passphrase.  
 
If you have any additional questions or if we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by email or phone any time.
 
Regards,
 


Alex Yu
Application Support Center
[hidden email]
(510) 642-8500 Option 2 and Press 2 for bCal
I'm sharing this here in case this is a surprise to anyone else who
might have been assuming based on previous discussions on the Micronet
list that various CalMail accounts might still be able to be set to
forward directly from the long-understood and well-defined CalMail
subnets to our own servers for processing.

I'll be re-working my plans to figure out other was to make things work
for my use cases now.


Rune


 
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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet. This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mimi Mugler
bConnected Team (UC Berkeley Google Apps for Education)
510.642.6157



--
Bruce Satow
University of California at Berkeley
Space Sciences Laboratory
7 Gauss Way
Berkeley, California 94720-7450
[hidden email]
(510) 643-2348

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.