[Micronet] Google (bmail) fails to deliver mailing list messages to the sender.

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[Micronet] Google (bmail) fails to deliver mailing list messages to the sender.

Christopher Brooks
I'm spending more and more time working around the "feature" in Google where mailing list email is not delivered to the sender.

This makes it hard for users to determine if their email went out.

This must be a violation of an RFC somewhere.  My understanding is that silently dropping email that is being sent to a legitimate email address is not acceptable.   I could spend some time making the case with the RFCs, but instead, I'd like to escalate this with Google, who do I contact?

Bernie wrote:
2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method
for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only
allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are
posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the
original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder,
you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's
solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam,
cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the
account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that
the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have
found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a
list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive
mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they
simply live with the issue.
My alternative is to move my email over to an ISP.  I'm considering using Sonic.net.

As an added bonus Sonic has excellent privacy practices, there is a comparison at https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

In particular, Sonic is said to tell users about government data requests, though I'm not sure how that works.  Also, Sonic is said to save log for only 14 days.

So, how do I escalate this bug with Google?  Can we have this brought up when we renew our contract?

_Christopher

-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)

 
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Re: [Micronet] Google (bmail) fails to deliver mailing list messages to the sender.

John Fuhs-Sooter
There is also another way to see if your post has made it to the list. Point your browser to micronet.berkeley.edu and click on the "Mailing List Archive" link on the bottom of the page. If your message went though, it will show there. 

Tangentially, I have been using sonic.net for my home isp for 10 years now and have had a great experience throughout. Their support is top-notch (I have had to make 2 support calls in the last 10 years - one of them was to move my service from one place to another).

Hope this info helps you out a bit.

John Fuhs-Sooter
Desktop Support Analyst
Campus Shared Services IT
To submit a request, please go to 
or call 664-9000, option 1, option 4, then option 2


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm spending more and more time working around the "feature" in Google where mailing list email is not delivered to the sender.

This makes it hard for users to determine if their email went out.

This must be a violation of an RFC somewhere.  My understanding is that silently dropping email that is being sent to a legitimate email address is not acceptable.   I could spend some time making the case with the RFCs, but instead, I'd like to escalate this with Google, who do I contact?

Bernie wrote:
2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method
for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only
allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are
posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the
original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder,
you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's
solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam,
cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the
account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that
the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have
found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a
list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive
mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they
simply live with the issue.
My alternative is to move my email over to an ISP.  I'm considering using Sonic.net.

As an added bonus Sonic has excellent privacy practices, there is a comparison at https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

In particular, Sonic is said to tell users about government data requests, though I'm not sure how that works.  Also, Sonic is said to save log for only 14 days.

So, how do I escalate this bug with Google?  Can we have this brought up when we renew our contract?

_Christopher

-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Google (bmail) fails to deliver mailing list messages to the sender.

Ryan Lovett-2
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
For mailing lists hosted at CalMail, I wonder if enabling/configuring the SMTP server (exim?) address extension feature would fool Google.


Ryan


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm spending more and more time working around the "feature" in Google where mailing list email is not delivered to the sender.

This makes it hard for users to determine if their email went out.

This must be a violation of an RFC somewhere.  My understanding is that silently dropping email that is being sent to a legitimate email address is not acceptable.   I could spend some time making the case with the RFCs, but instead, I'd like to escalate this with Google, who do I contact?

Bernie wrote:
2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method
for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only
allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are
posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the
original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder,
you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's
solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam,
cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the
account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that
the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have
found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a
list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive
mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they
simply live with the issue.
My alternative is to move my email over to an ISP.  I'm considering using Sonic.net.

As an added bonus Sonic has excellent privacy practices, there is a comparison at https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

In particular, Sonic is said to tell users about government data requests, though I'm not sure how that works.  Also, Sonic is said to save log for only 14 days.

So, how do I escalate this bug with Google?  Can we have this brought up when we renew our contract?

_Christopher

-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.