[Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

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[Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Greg Merritt
We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?

Thanks!!

-Greg


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Yu-Hung Lin
You might want to look at this for IST hosted solutions:
https://wikihub.berkeley.edu/display/ucbdvkt/Code+at+Berkeley+Service+Page

- YL

On 3/1/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:

> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Christopher Brooks
In reply to this post by Greg Merritt
I don't know of an IS&T hosted git repository.

Potential issues with Github:
1) The free version is "Free for open source Unlimited public repositories and unlimited public collaborators"
If your repositories are not open source, then you will need to pay for an account.

2) There is some data that should not end up leaving campus.

3) I'm not sure if the Github license meets the needs of the Regents.

In EECS, we are working towards rolling our own svn/git solution that uses
http://www.insanefactory.com/if-svnadmin/ iF.SVNAdmin to administer the SVN.
Kostadin Ilov has been hacking git into this.

We would like to use https://code.berkeley.edu/, but it has no way to securely share repositories with non-Calnet users.
Our current solution has a second LDAP database for people who are not in the EECS LDAP database.
We intend to use this second database for other things, such as websites for research centers where
each center has multiple workgroups that have wikis and repositories.

_Christopher


On 3/1/12 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?

Thanks!!

-Greg


 
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-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
CHESS Executive Director                      US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
Programmer/Analyst CHESS/Ptolemy/Trust        Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Greg Merritt
In reply to this post by Yu-Hung Lin
Shoot!  So close, but this IST service is off the mark for us.

We are moving from svn to git due both to feature sets and because svn's getting long in the tooth at over a decade old.  Our group needs to stay reasonably current, so we're going to git.

-Greg



On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Yu-Hung Lin wrote:

> You might want to look at this for IST hosted solutions:
> https://wikihub.berkeley.edu/display/ucbdvkt/Code+at+Berkeley+Service+Page
>
> - YL
>
> On 3/1/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
>> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> -Greg


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Bill Clark
I've been out of the loop on git for a few years (so my measure of
community sentiment may be outdated) but when I was last actively using
it, GitHub was viewed by git purists as somewhat of an abomination
antithetical to the entire philosophy of git.

You don't actually *need* central hosting with git -- that's the whole
point of it.  Every developer has their own fully-functional repository,
not just a working copy.  Any new developer can simply do an initial pull
from one of the existing developers.  GitHub is really just a "dummy
developer" that's online 24 hours a day (which is useful for distributed
teams working in different timezones) but you could instead just designate
someone on your development team to act as the "hub" for synchronizing
pulls, and it amounts to the same thing.  It could even be a different
person every time.. it doesn't matter.

So, running your own private git hub is no more difficult than setting up
an instance of git and leaving it running at all times.  That's very
different from subversion, in which there's a clear distinction between
svn client working copies and the svn master repository itself.  If your
designated local git hub were to die for some reason (e.g. hardware
failure) then any other developer instance of git would serve as a
suitable replacement or source for cloning.  It's not like the situation
in which a subversion repository died and the best you could hope for
would be a fresh import that results in all your past version history
disappearing -- with git, every working copy is a repository, complete
with the full history.

-Bill Clark

> Shoot!  So close, but this IST service is off the mark for us.
>
> We are moving from svn to git due both to feature sets and because svn's
> getting long in the tooth at over a decade old.  Our group needs to stay
> reasonably current, so we're going to git.
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Yu-Hung Lin wrote:
>
>> You might want to look at this for IST hosted solutions:
>> https://wikihub.berkeley.edu/display/ucbdvkt/Code+at+Berkeley+Service+Page
>>
>> - YL
>>
>> On 3/1/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
>>> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or
>>> is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
>>>
>>> Thanks!!
>>>
>>> -Greg
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Bill Clark
I should also point out that for small teams, using an intermediary hub
sometimes isn't worth the trouble.  Git was designed to be used purely in
a peer-to-peer fashion, with developers doing pulls/pushes from/to each
other's repositories.  Using a hub (which, again, can simply be any
instance of git to which everyone on the team has access) just reduces the
number of synchronizations that need to happen for large teams.

For a small team where everybody is in the same room, it's often simpler
for one developer to announce "I just committed some changes" and anybody
who wants those changes just does a pull from that developer's instance of
git.

If somebody on your team is a designated build/integration person, then it
may make the most sense to just treat their instance of git as the hub.

The nice thing about git is that it affords you the flexibility to have
just about any kind of architecture you want, and to change it on the fly.
 You can use a single persistent central hub (like GitHub) -- but you
don't have to.

-Bill Clark

> I've been out of the loop on git for a few years (so my measure of
> community sentiment may be outdated) but when I was last actively using
> it, GitHub was viewed by git purists as somewhat of an abomination
> antithetical to the entire philosophy of git.
>
> You don't actually *need* central hosting with git -- that's the whole
> point of it.  Every developer has their own fully-functional repository,
> not just a working copy.  Any new developer can simply do an initial pull
> from one of the existing developers.  GitHub is really just a "dummy
> developer" that's online 24 hours a day (which is useful for distributed
> teams working in different timezones) but you could instead just designate
> someone on your development team to act as the "hub" for synchronizing
> pulls, and it amounts to the same thing.  It could even be a different
> person every time.. it doesn't matter.
>
> So, running your own private git hub is no more difficult than setting up
> an instance of git and leaving it running at all times.  That's very
> different from subversion, in which there's a clear distinction between
> svn client working copies and the svn master repository itself.  If your
> designated local git hub were to die for some reason (e.g. hardware
> failure) then any other developer instance of git would serve as a
> suitable replacement or source for cloning.  It's not like the situation
> in which a subversion repository died and the best you could hope for
> would be a fresh import that results in all your past version history
> disappearing -- with git, every working copy is a repository, complete
> with the full history.
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>> Shoot!  So close, but this IST service is off the mark for us.
>>
>> We are moving from svn to git due both to feature sets and because svn's
>> getting long in the tooth at over a decade old.  Our group needs to stay
>> reasonably current, so we're going to git.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Yu-Hung Lin wrote:
>>
>>> You might want to look at this for IST hosted solutions:
>>> https://wikihub.berkeley.edu/display/ucbdvkt/Code+at+Berkeley+Service+Page
>>>
>>> - YL
>>>
>>> On 3/1/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
>>>> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or
>>>> is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>
>>>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe
>> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,
>> please
>> visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>> and
>> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>
>
>
>
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
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> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Jeff Anderson-Lee
In reply to this post by Bill Clark
On 3/2/2012 10:17 AM, Bill Clark wrote:
> GitHub was viewed by git purists as somewhat of an abomination
> antithetical to the entire philosophy of git.

There are git purists and those who write some code or papers now and
then. I don't want the philosophy, just the collaborative tool thank you.

> So, running your own private git hub is no more difficult than setting up
> an instance of git and leaving it running at all times.
So you want every group (or every coder/author?) to run their own server
on who knows what hardware 24x7? What if they only own a laptop?

In EECS we want to support collaboration without requiring that every
ad-hoc group or project has a sysadmin or a server that runs 24x7.  Our
grad-students collaborate all the time and most don't have a desk-top
box anymore let alone a server.  Or if Professor X wants to collaborate
on a paper or a software project with [hidden email] and [hidden email] they
should not need to know how to set up svn or git -- just how to use it.

At least that's how we see it.

Jeff Anderson-Lee

 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Bill Clark

> In EECS we want to support collaboration without requiring that every
> ad-hoc group or project has a sysadmin or a server that runs 24x7.  Our
> grad-students collaborate all the time and most don't have a desk-top
> box anymore let alone a server.  Or if Professor X wants to collaborate
> on a paper or a software project with [hidden email] and [hidden email] they
> should not need to know how to set up svn or git -- just how to use it.

That's precisely what I'm saying though -- *using* git is exactly the same
as *administering* it.  There is no client/server distinction.  Every
single instance of git is a full-fledged repository.  You don't need a
server at all.

You want to share changes with a colleague?  Then they just pull from your
instance of git, or you push to theirs.  The only real need for a hub in
those cases is if you're not both online at the same time, or there are
some firewall issues that prevent you from connecting to each other.  Or
(depending on the level of sophistication) if neither of you know your own
network address.

But as long as one of the people involved is on a known network address,
it's as simple as doing a "git push" to that address -- which is what
you'd do to push to a hub anyway.  In most cases, a direct push is even
simpler than using a hub, because there's only one step involved (rather
than one person pushing to the hub, and the other then pulling down from
the hub.)

There's nothing special about a git hub; it's just another instance of
git, same as the ones that are running on everybody else's machine.  Any
instance of git, whether it's running on a server, a desktop, a laptop, a
toaster, or whatever, can act as a hub -- if you even need or want a hub
at all.

It's completely different from subversion or other client/server models.

-Bill Clark


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Jon Forrest-2
In reply to this post by Jeff Anderson-Lee
On 3/2/2012 10:35 AM, Jeff Anderson-Lee wrote:

> In EECS we want to support collaboration without requiring that every
> ad-hoc group or project has a sysadmin or a server that runs 24x7.  Our
> grad-students collaborate all the time and most don't have a desk-top
> box anymore let alone a server.  Or if Professor X wants to collaborate
> on a paper or a software project with [hidden email] and [hidden email] they
> should not need to know how to set up svn or git -- just how to use it.

And this is exactly the way git is used by the Linux kernel
developers and other large decentralized ad-hoc projects.

As somebody who started using git fairly recently, I can see
its power in environments like this. If anybody is not convinced
you should read the linux kernel email alias to so how
it can work. It's amazing.

Jon


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

jon kuroda-2
In reply to this post by Greg Merritt
Returning to Micronet after spending much much time on the road (and
I fell out of the habit of keeping with Micronet following the Great
Thanksgiving CalMail Outage of 2011).

As Christopher's already pointed out, we're working on a SVN/git/etc
system to provide version control both internally within EECS and to
our non-EECS/UCB collaborators.

In the meanwhile, I run an SVN service (svn+ssh if anyone cares) for
my 3+ research groups (about 150+ researchers + external affiliates)
which is essentially self-service (anyone in the research groups can
setup access for external collaborators if they read the wiki docs.)

Anyway, having (re-)established my bonafides, some takeaways.

1. If you do anything time-critical, anything at all, I think a good
case can be made for using both a self-hosted and an external system
(say a git-enabled code.berkeley.edu and github) with one as primary
and the other as a backup.

A few nights ago, as I was about to leave the office after working a
very long day (just before 1AM), a faculty member came racing out of
a meeting room in a panic asking me, "Are you about to leave?"

4 hours before a major conference paper deadline, something had gone
horribly wrong with their GitHub repo.  This may have been something
GitHub-wide or just them, but either way, dead in the water.

30 minutes later, they were up and running with an SVN repo and able
to finish working with their East Coast collaborator who was getting
up at 3AM PST and submit their paper.  They later went back to merge
all of their post-panic SVN history into git for posterity.

If they had been solely dependent on GitHub (or any other singlerepo
service, even an internal one), "[we] would have been screwed, Jon."

Having an alternative to GitHub (either as primary or backup) that's
hosted and run people on campus, in their department, or better yet,
who worked for them, was invaluable.

Git is good about supporting usage in the absence of a central repo,
in fact, that one of its key features, but if you're not using it in
that fashion but instead using something like GitHub like a SVN repo
(hence, a Hub), when GitHub goes down and you have a deadline, it is
too late to be trying to figure distributed repo management.

At an abstract level, the creation of research and its dissemination            
may be the only things that actually matter on the research side.              

Researchers are okay with outages on such things *EXCEPT* for the 24            
hours immediately before deadlines.  We (the researchers with whom I
work) *cannot* afford outages, no matter how statistically random or
small, if they happen when we need to publish or meet a deadline.

If you do anything that with critical deadlines (such as publication
or, even more critical, funding), then you need to consider having a
alternative to services such as GitHub or use GitHub to complement a
campus-run service.

2. We've learned, again the hard way, that Git and SVN are suited to
different tasks.

Git is incredibly powerful -- it was developed by Linus Torvalds for
the purpose of supporting Linux Kernel development which makes large
use of branching to support many different development directions.

It is also incredibly complex in its full usage; beware, beyond this
place, there be dragons.  If you go with a git branching/usage model
such as GitFlow, you can avoid many problems, but it requires a fair
bit of discipline to avoid what I'll call "Git Rebase Hell".

SVN is essentially CVS with less suck and similarly has a simple and
hard-to-veer-off-the-road branching/usage model.  But it doesn't let
one do anything non-trivial with any ease.

The thing we've learned after using both over the past 5 years or so
is this:

      Git is good for Code.  SVN is good for papers/documents.

--Jon

On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 09:55:38AM -0800, Greg Merritt wrote:

> Shoot!  So close, but this IST service is off the mark for us.
>
> We are moving from svn to git due both to feature sets and because svn's getting long in the tooth at over a decade old.  Our group needs to stay reasonably current, so we're going to git.
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Yu-Hung Lin wrote:
>
> > You might want to look at this for IST hosted solutions:
> > https://wikihub.berkeley.edu/display/ucbdvkt/Code+at+Berkeley+Service+Page
> >
> > - YL
> >
> > On 3/1/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
> >> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
> >>
> >> Thanks!!
> >>
> >> -Greg
>
>
>  
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>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Andrew Ring
In reply to this post by Jon Forrest-2
On 3/2/12 Friday, March 2, 201211:00 AM, Jon Forrest wrote:

> On 3/2/2012 10:35 AM, Jeff Anderson-Lee wrote:
>
>> In EECS we want to support collaboration without requiring that every
>> ad-hoc group or project has a sysadmin or a server that runs 24x7.  Our
>> grad-students collaborate all the time and most don't have a desk-top
>> box anymore let alone a server.  Or if Professor X wants to collaborate
>> on a paper or a software project with [hidden email] and [hidden email] they
>> should not need to know how to set up svn or git -- just how to use it.
>
> And this is exactly the way git is used by the Linux kernel
> developers and other large decentralized ad-hoc projects.
>
> As somebody who started using git fairly recently, I can see
> its power in environments like this. If anybody is not convinced
> you should read the linux kernel email alias to so how
> it can work. It's amazing.
>
> Jon

I am pretty new to git and other revision control systems.  I would be
helped by a nuts and bolts guide. Anything else conflicts with previous
knowledge and gets frustrating.

Could we share our favorite git primers?  I would love to have something
simple and to the point to share with others.

-Andrew

 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Jon Forrest-2
On 3/2/2012 11:09 AM, Andrew Ring wrote:

> I am pretty new to git and other revision control systems.  I would be
> helped by a nuts and bolts guide. Anything else conflicts with previous
> knowledge and gets frustrating.
>
> Could we share our favorite git primers?  I would love to have something
> simple and to the point to share with others.

I strongly suggest reading "The Git Parable"
(http://tom.preston-werner.com/2009/05/19/the-git-parable.html).
It's not perfect but it does an excellent job at
presenting the problem the git is meant to solve,
and explaining how git solves it.

Also, although the author of the free "Pro Git" book is clearly
a git expert, be careful. He makes several incorrect statements
about how the index works in the early chapters. He told me
in private email that he did this because "at that point in the
book I have not gone into any details about the index yet, so it
would be confusing without more detail." This is a dangerous
approach to me.

Finally, also take a look at

http://sixrevisions.com/resources/git-tutorials-beginners/

for some more tutorials.

Jon Forrest



 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Christopher Brooks
In reply to this post by Bill Clark
I maybe slightly git-ignorant here, but if I want to limit read access
to a git repository, don't
I need to have some sort of access control?  I could do this via
htpasswd with apache.

The issue is that faculty collaborate on competition-sensitive documents
like funding
proposals and papers.  These documents need to be fairly private.

I have a few hundred cvs, svn and git repositories.  Most of those are
small and
have a common group of users.  I need a systematic way to manage those
groups of
users.  Some of the users have CalNet ids, others do not.

Also, I see git as the version control repository de jour.  I need a way
to support
the next version control system using my current set of users.  A good
IDE will provide
the roughly the same interface to any version control system.

There is an interesting round up of ways to share git at
http://www.jedi.be/blog/2009/05/06/8-ways-to-share-your-git-repository/

_Christopher

On 3/2/12 10:58 AM, Bill Clark wrote:

>> In EECS we want to support collaboration without requiring that every
>> ad-hoc group or project has a sysadmin or a server that runs 24x7.  Our
>> grad-students collaborate all the time and most don't have a desk-top
>> box anymore let alone a server.  Or if Professor X wants to collaborate
>> on a paper or a software project with [hidden email] and [hidden email] they
>> should not need to know how to set up svn or git -- just how to use it.
> That's precisely what I'm saying though -- *using* git is exactly the same
> as *administering* it.  There is no client/server distinction.  Every
> single instance of git is a full-fledged repository.  You don't need a
> server at all.
>
> You want to share changes with a colleague?  Then they just pull from your
> instance of git, or you push to theirs.  The only real need for a hub in
> those cases is if you're not both online at the same time, or there are
> some firewall issues that prevent you from connecting to each other.  Or
> (depending on the level of sophistication) if neither of you know your own
> network address.
>
> But as long as one of the people involved is on a known network address,
> it's as simple as doing a "git push" to that address -- which is what
> you'd do to push to a hub anyway.  In most cases, a direct push is even
> simpler than using a hub, because there's only one step involved (rather
> than one person pushing to the hub, and the other then pulling down from
> the hub.)
>
> There's nothing special about a git hub; it's just another instance of
> git, same as the ones that are running on everybody else's machine.  Any
> instance of git, whether it's running on a server, a desktop, a laptop, a
> toaster, or whatever, can act as a hub -- if you even need or want a hub
> at all.
>
> It's completely different from subversion or other client/server models.
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>
>
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--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
CHESS Executive Director                      US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
Programmer/Analyst CHESS/Ptolemy/Trust        Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
ph: 510.643.9841                                (Office: 545Q Cory)
home: (F-Tu) 707.665.0131 cell: 707.332.0670


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Bill Clark
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Jon Kuroda wrote:
> when GitHub goes down and you have a deadline, it is
> too late to be trying to figure distributed repo management.

But it's absolutely, drop-dead simple!  If the faculty member's machine
could be left online and was network-accessible to the collaborator, then
the collaborator would simply do the git pull from that address, rather
than the address of GitHub.  No other change needed, just an email that
read "GitHub seems to be down, pull from such-and-such address instead."

If there were firewall issues, or the faculty member's machine couldn't be
left online all night, then that repository could've been pushed to any
other network-accessible machine anywhere at all, and the collaborator
provided with that address.  (That's essentially all GitHub is -- a
way-station for collaborators separated by networks and/or time.)

I did happen to use GitHub when I was last working on a project using git,
and was always a little befuddled as to why some of the other (more
git-experienced) team members hated GitHub so much.  However, given the
wrong impression that GitHub seems to produce regarding how git works, I'm
beginning to understand.  Once you realize that literally *any* git
repository, on any computer, provides exactly the same functionality as
GitHub (with regards to git pushes and pulls -- GitHub does provide a lot
of nice web-based tools that aren't technically part of git) then it
should (hopefully) appear a lot simpler.

-Bill Clark


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Bill Clark
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
Christopher Brooks wrote:
> I maybe slightly git-ignorant here, but if I want to limit read access
> to a git repository, don't I need to have some sort of access control?

Ahhhh... good point.  That's probably the source of my confusion here -- I
bet many people think of "computer running ssh" as a server.  So it's not
git they're balking at, it's having authenticated access.

Setting up faculty laptops to allow authenticated remote access could
indeed be a pain in the neck for IT folks, and a potential security risk.
In that regard, GitHub (or something like it) is a real time-saver, albeit
for reasons entirely unrelated to git itself (though nonetheless
important.)

I'm so used to having ssh on every machine I use and/or connect to that I
sometimes forget that not everybody works that way.  Apologies to anybody
I've offended by overlooking that point.

So, to summarize:  GitHub (and any git hub in general) is completely and
totally unnecessary for using git -- but it can certainly save you the
hassle of dealing with authenticated access to individual repositories.
For many use-cases, that latter point is actually the more relevant one.

-Bill Clark


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Jon Forrest-2
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
On 3/2/2012 11:02 AM, jon kuroda wrote:

> SVN is essentially CVS with less suck and similarly has a simple and
> hard-to-veer-off-the-road branching/usage model.  But it doesn't let
> one do anything non-trivial with any ease.

I can't say from direct experience but the word on the street
is that svn 1.7 is much better at branching and merging than
previous versions. I'm guessing that this is due to competition
from git since branching and merging are things that git is
very good at.

> The thing we've learned after using both over the past 5 years or so
> is this:
>
>        Git is good for Code.  SVN is good for papers/documents.

I think that it's more a question of how you're sharing things
than what the things contain.

By the way, another good free reference on modern version control
systems is Version Control By Example (http://www.ericsink.com/vcbe/)

Jon


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Rune Stromsness
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
On 01-Mar-12 17:45, Christopher Brooks wrote:

> I don't know of an IS&T hosted git repository.
>
> Potential issues with Github:
> 1) The free version is "Free for open source Unlimited public
> repositories and unlimited public collaborators"
> If your repositories are not open source, then you will need to pay for
> an account.
>
> 2) There is some data that should not end up leaving campus.
>
> 3) I'm not sure if the Github license meets the needs of the Regents.
>
> In EECS, we are working towards rolling our own svn/git solution that uses
> http://www.insanefactory.com/if-svnadmin/ iF.SVNAdmin
> <http://www.insanefactory.com/if-svnadmin/%20iF.SVNAdmin> to administer
> the SVN.
> Kostadin Ilov has been hacking git into this.
>
> We would like to use https://code.berkeley.edu/, but it has no way to
> securely share repositories with non-Calnet users.
> Our current solution has a second LDAP database for people who are not
> in the EECS LDAP database.
> We intend to use this second database for other things, such as websites
> for research centers where
> each center has multiple workgroups that have wikis and repositories.
This is yet another place where the proposed CalNet guest accounts
(where anyone on campus could sponsor a guest for a CalNet account
through a self-serve web-based process, those accounts wouldn't have any
rights by default but could be assigned rights to things in any system
that uses CalNet for authentication) would be useful.

Rune

> _Christopher
>
>
> On 3/1/12 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
>> We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> -Greg
>>
[...]
> --
> Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
> CHESS Executive Director                      US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
> Programmer/Analyst CHESS/Ptolemy/Trust        Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
> ph: 510.643.9841                                (Office: 545Q Cory)
> home: (F-Tu) 707.665.0131 cell: 707.332.0670
[...]



 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Jeff Anderson-Lee
In reply to this post by Bill Clark
On 3/2/2012 11:35 AM, Bill Clark wrote:

> Christopher Brooks wrote:
>> I maybe slightly git-ignorant here, but if I want to limit read access
>> to a git repository, don't I need to have some sort of access control?
> Ahhhh... good point.  That's probably the source of my confusion here -- I
> bet many people think of "computer running ssh" as a server.  So it's not
> git they're balking at, it's having authenticated access.
>
> Setting up faculty laptops to allow authenticated remote access could
> indeed be a pain in the neck for IT folks, and a potential security risk.
> In that regard, GitHub (or something like it) is a real time-saver, albeit
> for reasons entirely unrelated to git itself (though nonetheless
> important.)
Bingo. Most of our faculty and students don't *have* an always on
machine anymore nor root on some server, and although you *can* set up
git and svn to run though your .ssh/authorized_keys file or run as a
user-mode service on some random machine, let's just say we'd rather
they didn't.

> I'm so used to having ssh on every machine I use and/or connect to that I
> sometimes forget that not everybody works that way.  Apologies to anybody
> I've offended by overlooking that point.
No offense taken.
> So, to summarize:  GitHub (and any git hub in general) is completely and
> totally unnecessary for using git -- but it can certainly save you the
> hassle of dealing with authenticated access to individual repositories.
> For many use-cases, that latter point is actually the more relevant one.
>
> -Bill Clark
Exactly!

Jeff


 
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Saneesh Apte
In reply to this post by Rune Stromsness
Quoting:

---
This is yet another place where the proposed CalNet guest accounts (where anyone on campus could sponsor a guest for a CalNet account through a self-serve web-based process, those accounts wouldn't have any rights by default but could be assigned rights to things in any system that uses CalNet for authentication) would be useful.
---

Just adding a vote, of sorts.  I think it would be enormously useful, as I've been maintaining two auth lists for quite sometime.





On 03/02/2012 11:56 AM, Rune Stromsness wrote:
On 01-Mar-12 17:45, Christopher Brooks wrote:
  
I don't know of an IS&T hosted git repository.

Potential issues with Github:
1) The free version is "Free for open source Unlimited public
repositories and unlimited public collaborators"
If your repositories are not open source, then you will need to pay for
an account.

2) There is some data that should not end up leaving campus.

3) I'm not sure if the Github license meets the needs of the Regents.

In EECS, we are working towards rolling our own svn/git solution that uses
http://www.insanefactory.com/if-svnadmin/ iF.SVNAdmin
<http://www.insanefactory.com/if-svnadmin/%20iF.SVNAdmin> to administer
the SVN.
Kostadin Ilov has been hacking git into this.

We would like to use https://code.berkeley.edu/, but it has no way to
securely share repositories with non-Calnet users.
Our current solution has a second LDAP database for people who are not
in the EECS LDAP database.
We intend to use this second database for other things, such as websites
for research centers where
each center has multiple workgroups that have wikis and repositories.
    
This is yet another place where the proposed CalNet guest accounts
(where anyone on campus could sponsor a guest for a CalNet account
through a self-serve web-based process, those accounts wouldn't have any
rights by default but could be assigned rights to things in any system
that uses CalNet for authentication) would be useful.

Rune

  
_Christopher


On 3/1/12 5:27 PM, Greg Merritt wrote:
    
We're about set to move from svn to git.  Does IST offer hosting?  Or is our best option to weigh running our own vs. GitHub or similar?

Thanks!!

-Greg

      
[...]
  
-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
CHESS Executive Director                      US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
Programmer/Analyst CHESS/Ptolemy/Trust        Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
ph: 510.643.9841                                (Office: 545Q Cory)
home: (F-Tu) 707.665.0131 cell: 707.332.0670 
    
[...]


  
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Re: [Micronet] IST-hosted version control repository?

Aron Roberts
In reply to this post by Jon Forrest-2
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Jon Forrest <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/2/2012 11:02 AM, jon kuroda wrote:
>
>> SVN is essentially CVS with less suck and similarly has a simple and
>> hard-to-veer-off-the-road branching/usage model.  But it doesn't let
>> one do anything non-trivial with any ease.
>
> I can't say from direct experience but the word on the street
> is that svn 1.7 is much better at branching and merging than
> previous versions. I'm guessing that this is due to competition
> from git since branching and merging are things that git is
> very good at.

Good points, Jon and Jon :-).

Regarding Subversion - its current state and future directions - and
distributed version control system competitors like git and mercurial,
my colleague, Richard Millet, recommends this blog post:

http://chriswongdevblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/dvcs-vs-subversion-smackdown-round-3.html

Key excerpt from the intro to that post:

"... in a previous blog post I argued that the recent rise of DVCS
(Git, Mercurial) is less due to their essential D (distributed)
nature, but the accidental weaknesses of Subversion, the dominant
centralized VCS. The weaknesses I mentioned are:

* Poor merging
* Lack of offline commits

Since the Subversion folks are busy rectifying these weaknesses, I
questioned whether DVCS is really the wave of the future."

  Your opinion may vary, but food for thought ...

Aron Roberts
Information Services and Technology

(currently working on a distributed software development project that
has recently done an SVN-to-git-with-GitHub transition, still a bit
rocky)

 
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