[Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

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[Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

jon kuroda-2
Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?

That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:

  <my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu

While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
is it something run within your department or at least by some
other campus group? [2]

In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
it is convenient for people to use.

It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]

(Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
wait, there's more!)

It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.

Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
other than just the accounts they get for classes.

Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.

--Jon

[1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.

[2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
those who run them speak for themselves.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

Ryan Lovett
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 07:23:15PM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:
> In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> it is convenient for people to use.

That's what we do in Stat, but the jabber server is only used by
a few staff. If $cloud_vendor or bSpace/Sakai were to have an XMPP
service, we'd use it.

Ryan

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

Tim Heidinger
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Jon,
On 8/26/2011 7:23 PM, jon kuroda wrote:
> While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
> anything at all?
Skype Chat is used for instant messaging for a couple projects I'm
involved with.   Skype because the team is spread across multiple campus
locations and it is useful for conference calls,1on1 video conferencing
and 1on1 screen sharing in addition to instant messaging.  (I also use
Skype as a replacement for regular land line campus phone service).

It works for us because having Skype active all the time is a common
practice among team members (mostly technical).  We've recently
introduced Skype to non-technical team members and they use Skype for
scheduled meetings only, preferring to NOT have the constant
interruptions via IM (a non-technical challenge).

Having CalNet auth and directory would be nice but it would be really
nice if we got that and instant messaging tightly integrated with
phone/video/web conferencing software.

Tim

--
Tim Heidinger<[hidden email]>
University of California, Berkeley
Kuali Student Program Office  Phone: (510) 629-4272


 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

billallison
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Hi Jon

I saw instant messaging mentioned in several early OE PS presentations and while it's not been a high profile component, it is on the radar.  The vendors under consideration all offer this capability so I think it's likely PS would include this, especially given campus interest.

-Bill

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 26, 2011, at 19:23, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?
>
> That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
> or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:
>
>  <my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu
>
> While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
> anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
> immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
> dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
> is it something run within your department or at least by some
> other campus group? [2]
>
> In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> it is convenient for people to use.
>
> It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
> AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
> they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
> or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]
>
> (Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
> wait, there's more!)
>
> It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
> same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
> so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
> can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
> who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.
>
> Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
> e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
> everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
> to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
> other than just the accounts they get for classes.
>
> Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
> am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
> already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
> sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.
>
> --Jon
>
> [1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
> alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
> a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
> then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
> gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.
>
> [2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
> those who run them speak for themselves.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

jon kuroda-2
In reply to this post by Ryan Lovett
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 09:42:41PM -0700, Ryan Lovett wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 07:23:15PM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:
> > In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> > an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> > the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> > it is convenient for people to use.
>
> That's what we do in Stat, but the jabber server is only used by
> a few staff. If $cloud_vendor or bSpace/Sakai were to have an XMPP
> service, we'd use it.
>
> Ryan

Does this mean that Stat's XMPP server does not currently support
any inter-domain federation?  That is, [hidden email] can
not chat with [hidden email]?

Or just that it has very little use?  --Jon

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

jon kuroda-2
In reply to this post by billallison
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:20:34PM -0700, Bill Allison wrote:
> Hi Jon
>
> I saw instant messaging mentioned in several early OE PS presentations and while it's not been a high profile component, it is on the radar.  The vendors under consideration all offer this capability so I think it's likely PS would include this, especially given campus interest.
>
> -Bill

As someone who needs to interact with people at other institutions
a fair bit, I find it valuable to be able to interact with them on
an 'open system' as is provided by XMPP IM services.

Imagine if instead of just sending e-mail to "[hidden email]"
research collaborators all had to use AOL Mail to contact me or my
faculty - yeah, no way that would fly.  

I know that Google provides hosted XMPP/Jabber services, so that's
a plus in their favor.  

I think it would be a disappointment and a disservice to choose an
IM "solution" that involved a closed proprietary system that could
not interoperate using open protocols.

I hope that this is either taken into consideration when examining
vendor proposals OR seen as something that doesn't necessitate any
tight integration with the rest of the OE PS services and so could
be done "in-house", making any vendor IM services irrelevant.

--Jon

> On Aug 26, 2011, at 19:23, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?
> >
> > That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
> > or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:
> >
> >  <my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu
> >
> > While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
> > anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
> > immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
> > dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
> > is it something run within your department or at least by some
> > other campus group? [2]
> >
> > In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> > an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> > the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> > it is convenient for people to use.
> >
> > It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
> > AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
> > they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
> > or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]
> >
> > (Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
> > wait, there's more!)
> >
> > It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
> > same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
> > so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
> > can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
> > who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.
> >
> > Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
> > e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
> > everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
> > to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
> > other than just the accounts they get for classes.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
> > am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
> > already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
> > sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.
> >
> > --Jon
> >
> > [1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
> > alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
> > a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
> > then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
> > gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.
> >
> > [2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
> > those who run them speak for themselves.
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> >
> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> >
> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> >
> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

Ryan Lovett
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 02:23:30AM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 09:42:41PM -0700, Ryan Lovett wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 07:23:15PM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:
> > > In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> > > an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> > > the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> > > it is convenient for people to use.
> >
> > That's what we do in Stat, but the jabber server is only used by
> > a few staff. If $cloud_vendor or bSpace/Sakai were to have an XMPP
> > service, we'd use it.
>
> Does this mean that Stat's XMPP server does not currently support
> any inter-domain federation?  That is, [hidden email] can
> not chat with [hidden email]?

The software supports it, but we haven't taken the extra steps to make it
work.
 
> Or just that it has very little use?  --Jon

Yes, very little. At one point it was used in a desktop support capacity
for screen sharing and video. (iChat)

Ryan

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

Kenneth Lee
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
We use Microsoft Instant Messenger in Facilities Services IT. A campus
wide IM where we could use our Calnet Id would be great.


- Ken



On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 02:35:16 -0700, jon kuroda <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:20:34PM -0700, Bill Allison wrote:
>> Hi Jon
>>
>> I saw instant messaging mentioned in several early OE PS presentations
>> and while it's not been a high profile component, it is on the radar.
>> The vendors under consideration all offer this capability so I think
it's

>> likely PS would include this, especially given campus interest.
>>
>> -Bill
>
> As someone who needs to interact with people at other institutions
> a fair bit, I find it valuable to be able to interact with them on
> an 'open system' as is provided by XMPP IM services.
>
> Imagine if instead of just sending e-mail to "[hidden email]"
> research collaborators all had to use AOL Mail to contact me or my
> faculty - yeah, no way that would fly.  
>
> I know that Google provides hosted XMPP/Jabber services, so that's
> a plus in their favor.  
>
> I think it would be a disappointment and a disservice to choose an
> IM "solution" that involved a closed proprietary system that could
> not interoperate using open protocols.
>
> I hope that this is either taken into consideration when examining
> vendor proposals OR seen as something that doesn't necessitate any
> tight integration with the rest of the OE PS services and so could
> be done "in-house", making any vendor IM services irrelevant.
>
> --Jon
>
>> On Aug 26, 2011, at 19:23, jon kuroda <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>>
>> > Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?
>> >
>> > That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
>> > or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:
>> >
>> >  <my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu
>> >
>> > While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
>> > anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
>> > immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
>> > dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
>> > is it something run within your department or at least by some
>> > other campus group? [2]
>> >
>> > In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
>> > an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
>> > the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
>> > it is convenient for people to use.
>> >
>> > It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
>> > AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
>> > they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
>> > or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]
>> >
>> > (Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
>> > wait, there's more!)
>> >
>> > It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
>> > same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
>> > so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
>> > can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
>> > who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.
>> >
>> > Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
>> > e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
>> > everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
>> > to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
>> > other than just the accounts they get for classes.
>> >
>> > Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
>> > am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
>> > already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
>> > sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.
>> >
>> > --Jon
>> >
>> > [1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
>> > alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
>> > a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
>> > then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
>> > gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.
>> >
>> > [2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
>> > those who run them speak for themselves.
>> >
>> >
>> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> > The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>> > server:
>> >
>> > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> > unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>> > meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>> >
>> > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>> >
>> > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>> > and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.
>> > This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your
bosses,
>> > prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>  
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list
server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,
please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Kenneth Lee
Application Programmer III
Facilities Services IT
UC Berkeley
510-643-5201
https://calshare.berkeley.edu/sites/fs/supportservices/default.aspx

 
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Re: [Micronet] Instant Messaging on Campus?

Jack Burris
In reply to this post by Tim Heidinger
I keep in contact with many IT friends on other campuses and it looks
like Jabber (specifically Pidgin+OTR) is the IM protocol of choice.
After all, XMPP is pretty much bridged to everything else.  Looking at
the Guardian Project, there's even an Android client that will do
Jabber+OTR.

(OTR = Off the Record which offers secure keybaord-to-keyboard
encryption of some chat clients)

Hopefully whatever, if ever, we settle on, it will be a best of breed
OPEN SOURCE solution.

As cool as clients like Skype are (I've used it to set up a call center
for a recent survey), they are still subject to the vicissitudes of the
marketplace.  Embracing an open standard seems more manageable and
scalable (IMHO).

ciao,
Jack Burris
SSCL



--

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." --
H.G. Wells

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[Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

jon kuroda-2
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
With the rollout of Google-backed replacements of various campus
services now in progress (starting with bCal, perhaps bMail will
come next?), there is one service Campus currently does not have
at all, and perhaps Google could help jumpstart that too.

                     Instant Messaging.

I asked about this a year ago (I'd make it a year to the day but
I have some visitors coming into town then), but was reminded of
the "Campus IM (or lack thereof)" thread by:

                     http://calchat.net/

Or is this the (soon to be) new Campus IM Service? (which likely
will not interoperate with anything else like XMPP/Jabber ...)

Again, I will reiterate how useful it was to have an EECS Jabber
service during the Great Thanksgiving 2011 CalMail Outage. [1]

Again, I will reiterate how useful it is, even in this period of
high service uptime (I can measure service uptime in 9's instead
of 1/9's), to have a well run, Dept managed IM service that uses
my Dept credentials (instead of "yet another frakking password")
and uses open protocols (XMPP aka Jabber).

--Jon

[1] I was out of town then on the East Coast (at Usenix LISA, no
less - that was fun, lots of questions about why our campus mail
service was was down though at least I was not the only Berkeley
person there) and without EECS IM, I would have been effectively
cut off from things back in EECS.


On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 02:35:16AM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:20:34PM -0700, Bill Allison wrote:
> > Hi Jon
> >
> > I saw instant messaging mentioned in several early OE PS presentations and while it's not been a high profile component, it is on the radar.  The vendors under consideration all offer this capability so I think it's likely PS would include this, especially given campus interest.
> >
> > -Bill
>
> As someone who needs to interact with people at other institutions
> a fair bit, I find it valuable to be able to interact with them on
> an 'open system' as is provided by XMPP IM services.
>
> Imagine if instead of just sending e-mail to "[hidden email]"
> research collaborators all had to use AOL Mail to contact me or my
> faculty - yeah, no way that would fly.  
>
> I know that Google provides hosted XMPP/Jabber services, so that's
> a plus in their favor.  
>
> I think it would be a disappointment and a disservice to choose an
> IM "solution" that involved a closed proprietary system that could
> not interoperate using open protocols.
>
> I hope that this is either taken into consideration when examining
> vendor proposals OR seen as something that doesn't necessitate any
> tight integration with the rest of the OE PS services and so could
> be done "in-house", making any vendor IM services irrelevant.
>
> --Jon
>
> > On Aug 26, 2011, at 19:23, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?
> > >
> > > That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
> > > or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:
> > >
> > >  <my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu
> > >
> > > While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
> > > anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
> > > immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
> > > dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
> > > is it something run within your department or at least by some
> > > other campus group? [2]
> > >
> > > In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
> > > an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
> > > the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
> > > it is convenient for people to use.
> > >
> > > It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
> > > AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
> > > they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
> > > or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]
> > >
> > > (Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
> > > wait, there's more!)
> > >
> > > It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
> > > same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
> > > so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
> > > can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
> > > who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.
> > >
> > > Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
> > > e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
> > > everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
> > > to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
> > > other than just the accounts they get for classes.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
> > > am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
> > > already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
> > > sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.
> > >
> > > --Jon
> > >
> > > [1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
> > > alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
> > > a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
> > > then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
> > > gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.
> > >
> > > [2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
> > > those who run them speak for themselves.
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
> > >
> > > To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
> > >
> > > http://micronet.berkeley.edu
> > >
> > > Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

Ryan Lovett
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 03:31:23AM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:
> With the rollout of Google-backed replacements of various campus
> services now in progress (starting with bCal, perhaps bMail will
> come next?), there is one service Campus currently does not have
> at all, and perhaps Google could help jumpstart that too.

I was able to login to Google's jabber service via iChat using my
@berkeley.edu address. I assumed this meant that Google Talk was enabled
for the campus Google Apps domain, though I haven't actually tested it
yet. I would guess this will work right now for anyone who got enrolled
via the CalAgenda migration.

Ryan

 
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Re: [Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

Michael Chung

Hi All,

 

Looks like it is enabled…but perhaps not officially supported yet (?). I just downloaded Google Talk and was able to login using my @berkeley.edu e-mail address and login key. Successfully sent my own Gmail account an invitation and a few back and forth IM’s with myself.

 

 

Michael Chung

Systems Administrator

Haas Enterprise Computing & Service Management

[hidden email] | 510-643-3887

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ryan Lovett
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:17 AM
To: jon kuroda
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

 

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 03:31:23AM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:

> With the rollout of Google-backed replacements of various campus

> services now in progress (starting with bCal, perhaps bMail will come

> next?), there is one service Campus currently does not have at all,

> and perhaps Google could help jumpstart that too.

 

I was able to login to Google's jabber service via iChat using my @berkeley.edu address. I assumed this meant that Google Talk was enabled for the campus Google Apps domain, though I haven't actually tested it yet. I would guess this will work right now for anyone who got enrolled via the CalAgenda migration.

 

Ryan

 

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Re: [Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

Ian Crew
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
Jon:

Google Talk is included as part of the bApps  suite (Berkeley's instance of the Google Apps for Education offering).  To be clear about this requires some clarification as this one of of the areas where Google's products and branding are most confusing.  The chat functionality of Google is referenced by two different terms, 'Google Talk' and 'Google Chat'. In the web interface for Gmail, it is labeled as 'chat', but for Google Apps, the service is called 'Google Talk'. 'Google Talk' can refer to both the Google Talk software client AND the technology itself. 'Google Chat' or 'Gmail Chat' is the feature in a service that uses the 'Google Talk' technology.

This is an important distinction. In gmail, the chat feature also has the ability to support video chat and voice calls. These are actually 3 different technologies that are bundled into the 'gmail chat' feature. One of these technologies is Google Talk, the other is Google Video Chat and the other is Google Voice. 

Google is in the process of switching up these technologies. The Gmail video chat is being swapped out for a version of G+ Hangouts. Now, according to this FAQ, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qdovielK259Q15d4fmcHhv7NeuVlau7LP0B8adJEqfc/edit?pli=1#heading=h.ald99tsevt5q and confirmed by Google, Gmail 'text' chat still will use Google Talk and therefore covered as a core service and our UC agreement. Gmail voice and video chat are *not* covered as they are technically *not* Google Talk services. 

So, what this says to me is that Gmail 'text' chat is covered under our agreement as it is 'Google Talk and we can encourage users to use this as their chat client as part of the bApps rollout.  That said, we're not yet ready to provide support for it, so it should be considered as unsupported for now. 

Confusing enough?  Hope that helps...

Cheers,

Ian Crew
PS Project Team


On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:31 AM, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:

With the rollout of Google-backed replacements of various campus
services now in progress (starting with bCal, perhaps bMail will
come next?), there is one service Campus currently does not have
at all, and perhaps Google could help jumpstart that too.

                    Instant Messaging.

I asked about this a year ago (I'd make it a year to the day but
I have some visitors coming into town then), but was reminded of
the "Campus IM (or lack thereof)" thread by:

    http://calchat.net/

Or is this the (soon to be) new Campus IM Service? (which likely
will not interoperate with anything else like XMPP/Jabber ...)

Again, I will reiterate how useful it was to have an EECS Jabber
service during the Great Thanksgiving 2011 CalMail Outage. [1]

Again, I will reiterate how useful it is, even in this period of
high service uptime (I can measure service uptime in 9's instead
of 1/9's), to have a well run, Dept managed IM service that uses
my Dept credentials (instead of "yet another frakking password")
and uses open protocols (XMPP aka Jabber).

--Jon

[1] I was out of town then on the East Coast (at Usenix LISA, no
less - that was fun, lots of questions about why our campus mail
service was was down though at least I was not the only Berkeley
person there) and without EECS IM, I would have been effectively
cut off from things back in EECS.


On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 02:35:16AM -0700, jon kuroda wrote:
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:20:34PM -0700, Bill Allison wrote:
Hi Jon

I saw instant messaging mentioned in several early OE PS presentations and while it's not been a high profile component, it is on the radar.  The vendors under consideration all offer this capability so I think it's likely PS would include this, especially given campus interest.

-Bill

As someone who needs to interact with people at other institutions
a fair bit, I find it valuable to be able to interact with them on
an 'open system' as is provided by XMPP IM services.

Imagine if instead of just sending e-mail to "[hidden email]"
research collaborators all had to use AOL Mail to contact me or my
faculty - yeah, no way that would fly.  

I know that Google provides hosted XMPP/Jabber services, so that's
a plus in their favor.  

I think it would be a disappointment and a disservice to choose an
IM "solution" that involved a closed proprietary system that could
not interoperate using open protocols.

I hope that this is either taken into consideration when examining
vendor proposals OR seen as something that doesn't necessitate any
tight integration with the rest of the OE PS services and so could
be done "in-house", making any vendor IM services irrelevant.

--Jon

On Aug 26, 2011, at 19:23, jon kuroda <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does Campus have an Instant Messaging goal/vision/dream/hope?

That is, being able signon to a Campus run/supported/sponsored
or even just 'blessed' IM service with a IM login like:

<my calnet friendly id or calmail username>@berkeley.edu

While I am at it, what do you all use for Instant Messaging if
anything at all?  This could include just between you and your
immediate co-workers, faculty/TAs<->students, whatever.  It is
dependent on an external service provide (AOL, Yahoo!, etc) or
is it something run within your department or at least by some
other campus group? [2]

In EECS, we have an XMPP (aka Jabber) service[setup, and it is
an awesome thing to have available here in EECS.  It uses both
the same auth and directory backend as other EECS services, so
it is convenient for people to use.

It is not just that people don't have to wonder whether to use
AOL/Y!IM/IRC/Zephyr/ICQ/unix talk or even GTalk or LJTalk when
they want to quickly chat with someone else in the department,
or ask the inevitable "Wanna get lunch?"[1]

(Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing on its own.  But,
wait, there's more!)

It's also that people can sign into an IM service that, at the
same time, can be dedicated just to their EECS/Campus business
so they can keep that and their personal business separate but
can be still be used to chat with people at other institutions
who use their own institution's XMPP/Jabber service.

Sorta like IRC but with better identity assurances, sorta like
e-mail/SMTP but with lower latency/overhead.  The one downside
everyone notes is that in general, undergrads don't get access
to it unless they are sponsored by faculty/staff for something
other than just the accounts they get for classes.

Anyway, I'm not here to primarily tout XMPP/Jabber or EECS.  I
am curious if Campus has plans in this area.  If so, are these
already in progress via the Productivity Suite Initiative?  It
sure would be nice if it were XMPP/Jabber based though.

--Jon

[1]never underestimate how long it can take to get just 4, let
alone more people to get out the door to lunch, nevermind pick
a place to go to lunch.  Being able to ask "Lunch?" on IM, and
then get other work done while waiting for the lunch crowdd to
gather in am IM Chat room - invaluable for sanity.

[2]I know of other XMPP/Jabber servers on campus, but I'll let
those who run them speak for themselves.


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--
Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub
http://hub.berkeley.edu

Content Management Technologies
IST-Architecture, Middleware and Common Applications
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley






 
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Re: [Micronet] Revisited Instant Messaging on Campus?

plato
In reply to this post by jon kuroda-2
> With the rollout of Google-backed replacements of various campus
> services now in progress (starting with bCal, perhaps bMail will
> come next?), there is one service Campus currently does not have
> at all, and perhaps Google could help jumpstart that too.
>
>                      Instant Messaging.
>

I think campus technical staff would benefit from a campus run XMPP server
that supports open protocols,  PKI and uses CAS for login, instead of YAP
(yet another password).  I think campus as a whole would also benefit, but
would have slightly different technical requirements.

Elle Plato


 
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