[Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

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[Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Jon Forrest
I remember hearing rumors that the
campus was in the process of negotiating
a site license for RHEL. Did this
ever get consummated?

Jon

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Walt Hagmaier
Jon, it is completed.
We are finalizing the process and hope to have a message out by end of this
week with instructions on how to utilize it.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Infrastructure @ IST (Mainframe, Unix, Windows, Storage, Backup,
Data Center and Production Control) UC Berkeley
[hidden email]   (510) 643-8609


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jon Forrest
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:05 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

I remember hearing rumors that the
campus was in the process of negotiating a site license for RHEL. Did this
ever get consummated?

Jon

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Paul Mackinney
Is someone able to state the clear/compelling advantages in converting
to RedHat from CentOS?

For servers I've standardized on CentOS 5, typically running under Xen,
and only using the Extras/Updates repos to get bug fixes & security
updates. I'm running basic web services, Apache2, MySQL, PostGRESQL,
Tomcat6.

TIA, PM

--
Paul Mackinney
Engineering Pathway
2111ABC Etcheverry Hall



 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Jon Forrest
On 11/15/2010 10:00 AM, Paul Mackinney wrote:
> Is someone able to state the clear/compelling advantages in converting
> to RedHat from CentOS?

The only reason I can think of is that sometimes
it takes a while before CentOS comes out with
their version after it's been released by RH.
This isn't important enough to me to get
exited about but if there's a campus license
I say why not?

> For servers I've standardized on CentOS 5, typically running under Xen,
> and only using the Extras/Updates repos to get bug fixes&  security
> updates. I'm running basic web services, Apache2, MySQL, PostGRESQL,
> Tomcat6.

Me too, except I don't run under Xen. I run a semi-private
yum update mirror but I'd be willing to share it with people
on campus. (Ideally the IST should run such a thing).
I've also figured out how to run a Ubuntu update mirror
using apt-cacher on top of CentOS which I'd also be willing
to share.

Jon



 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Karl R. Grose
On 11/15/2010 10:06, Jon Forrest wrote:
> On 11/15/2010 10:00 AM, Paul Mackinney wrote:
>> Is someone able to state the clear/compelling advantages in converting
>> to RedHat from CentOS?
>
> The only reason I can think of is that sometimes
> it takes a while before CentOS comes out with
> their version after it's been released by RH.

Having a dedicated UC Berkeley RHN Satellite with all of the
configuration management, provisioning, virtualization, and software
channel features available for all hosts also can help keep systems
well-managed, especially for larger numbers.

--Karl

=======

> This isn't important enough to me to get
> exited about but if there's a campus license
> I say why not?
>
>> For servers I've standardized on CentOS 5, typically running under Xen,
>> and only using the Extras/Updates repos to get bug fixes&   security
>> updates. I'm running basic web services, Apache2, MySQL, PostGRESQL,
>> Tomcat6.
>
> Me too, except I don't run under Xen. I run a semi-private
> yum update mirror but I'd be willing to share it with people
> on campus. (Ideally the IST should run such a thing).
> I've also figured out how to run a Ubuntu update mirror
> using apt-cacher on top of CentOS which I'd also be willing
> to share.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Michael Sinatra-2
On 11/15/10 10:23, Karl R. Grose wrote:

> On 11/15/2010 10:06, Jon Forrest wrote:
>> On 11/15/2010 10:00 AM, Paul Mackinney wrote:
>>> Is someone able to state the clear/compelling advantages in converting
>>> to RedHat from CentOS?
>>
>> The only reason I can think of is that sometimes
>> it takes a while before CentOS comes out with
>> their version after it's been released by RH.
>
> Having a dedicated UC Berkeley RHN Satellite with all of the
> configuration management, provisioning, virtualization, and software
> channel features available for all hosts also can help keep systems
> well-managed, especially for larger numbers.

I believe the ability to manage systems through RHN is itself a
compelling reason to use RHEL instead of CentOS.  I also agree that the
patch timing (especially given Red Hat's uncanny ability to introduce
bugs into their kernel builds of late--which are then replicated by
CentOS) is very important.  Occasionally, it has taken months for CentOS
to catch up to RHEL patch levels.

>> This isn't important enough to me to get
>> exited about but if there's a campus license
>> I say why not?

I realize that the university has pretty high transaction costs, but
$60/year for a RHEL full educational license wasn't bad even before the
site license.  I realize it adds up for a whole lab of boxes, but it's
still a relatively small expense, when you consider the expense of
hardware, labor, and proprietary operating systems that would otherwise
go into managing machines.

>>> For servers I've standardized on CentOS 5, typically running under Xen,
>>> and only using the Extras/Updates repos to get bug fixes&    security
>>> updates. I'm running basic web services, Apache2, MySQL, PostGRESQL,
>>> Tomcat6.
>>
>> Me too, except I don't run under Xen. I run a semi-private
>> yum update mirror but I'd be willing to share it with people
>> on campus. (Ideally the IST should run such a thing).
>> I've also figured out how to run a Ubuntu update mirror
>> using apt-cacher on top of CentOS which I'd also be willing
>> to share.

That raises another point: CentOS's mirrors are crappy.  (I believe RSSP
was running a shadow mirror, BTW.)  While IST could run a mirror for
CentOS, it doesn't make much sense to do so.  Not only does IST
generally not use CentOS, but, as stated above, greater advantages to
the campus will accrue by putting resources into a RHEL site license and
RHN satellite server.

Cheers to the Unix team and Walt for making this happen.

michael

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Jon Forrest
On 11/15/2010 10:33 AM, Michael Sinatra wrote:

> I believe the ability to manage systems through RHN is itself a
> compelling reason to use RHEL instead of CentOS.  I also agree that the
> patch timing (especially given Red Hat's uncanny ability to introduce
> bugs into their kernel builds of late--which are then replicated by
> CentOS) is very important.  Occasionally, it has taken months for CentOS
> to catch up to RHEL patch levels.

In theory what you say is true but in practice
in my environment at least I've never needed anything
from RedHat. However, I'm the first to admit that I don't
do things in a way that would scale to 100s of systems.

I haven't found RH's kernels buggy. I even run
them on some of the new 48-core nodes with
no problems.

> I realize that the university has pretty high transaction costs, but
> $60/year for a RHEL full educational license wasn't bad even before the
> site license.  I realize it adds up for a whole lab of boxes, but it's
> still a relatively small expense, when you consider the expense of
> hardware, labor, and proprietary operating systems that would otherwise
> go into managing machines.

One reason I didn't do this in the past is that then
I have to remember which systems have RHEL licenses and
which don't, and then administer the machines
accordingly. By using only CentOS this problem goes away.
Since I've never seen a problem that was in CentOS
that also not in RHEL there's been no downside to this.


> That raises another point: CentOS's mirrors are crappy.  (I believe RSSP
> was running a shadow mirror, BTW.)

I haven't experienced this.

> While IST could run a mirror for CentOS, it doesn't make much
> sense to do so.  Not only does IST generally not use CentOS,
> but, as stated above, greater advantages to
> the campus will accrue by putting resources into a RHEL site license and
> RHN satellite server.

I agree 100% that once the RHEL license is in place and the
RHN satellite server is in place that it would make no sense
to run a mirror. However, until that happens and until
the campus switches from CentOS to RHEL it would make
lots of sense. Just imagine how many bits we burn up
every time a new RHEL release comes out, or when somebody
downloads a full CentOS release yet again. (This same
comment applies to Ubuntu).

> Cheers to the Unix team and Walt for making this happen.

Again, I agree 100%.

Jon

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

John Kim
On 11/15/2010 11:27 AM, Jon Forrest wrote:

> On 11/15/2010 10:33 AM, Michael Sinatra wrote:
>
>> I believe the ability to manage systems through RHN is itself a
>> compelling reason to use RHEL instead of CentOS.  I also agree that the
>> patch timing (especially given Red Hat's uncanny ability to introduce
>> bugs into their kernel builds of late--which are then replicated by
>> CentOS) is very important.  Occasionally, it has taken months for CentOS
>> to catch up to RHEL patch levels.
>
> In theory what you say is true but in practice
> in my environment at least I've never needed anything
> from RedHat. However, I'm the first to admit that I don't
> do things in a way that would scale to 100s of systems.
>
> I haven't found RH's kernels buggy. I even run
> them on some of the new 48-core nodes with
> no problems.

System management through RHN (which I would have chimed in as one big plus
if Michael didn't already do so,) isn't just about being able to contact
them when you have a problem.  If you are managing multiple systems,
especially when they aren't identically configured, just being able to check
on one screen all of the systems that have checked in and are fully
up-to-date is a big plus.  By default, you'll also receive emails from RHN
if a system hasn't checked in recently or if an update fails for some reason.

>> I realize that the university has pretty high transaction costs, but
>> $60/year for a RHEL full educational license wasn't bad even before the
>> site license.  I realize it adds up for a whole lab of boxes, but it's
>> still a relatively small expense, when you consider the expense of
>> hardware, labor, and proprietary operating systems that would otherwise
>> go into managing machines.
>
> One reason I didn't do this in the past is that then
> I have to remember which systems have RHEL licenses and
> which don't, and then administer the machines
> accordingly. By using only CentOS this problem goes away.
> Since I've never seen a problem that was in CentOS
> that also not in RHEL there's been no downside to this.

Now with site license, this reason is less of an issue.

Another issue for some people is that if they are using some other
commercial products running on their linux box, some nitpicks won't provide
support if the base system isn't "Red Hat."  Even if the support techs fully
understands where CentOS code comes from, it gives the them an extra reason
to push the blame.

--
John Kim
System and Network Security
http://security.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Paul Mackinney
In reply to this post by Jon Forrest

> I run a semi-private
> yum update mirror but I'd be willing to share it with people
> on campus. (Ideally the IST should run such a thing).
> I've also figured out how to run a Ubuntu update mirror
> using apt-cacher on top of CentOS which I'd also be willing
> to share.
>
> Jon
>
Maybe you could send me the address off-list. Makes my blue bear blood
boil every time I use the Stanford yum mirror ;-)

--
Paul Mackinney
Engineering Pathway
2111ABC Etcheverry Hall
--
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose
         Bob Dylan 1965

When you think that you lost everything
You find out you can always lose a little more
         Bob Dylan 1997


 
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Re: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?

Burke Bundy
In reply to this post by Walt Hagmaier
Hi Walt,

Can I please trouble you for a status update?

Thanks,
Burke


> Jon, it is completed.
> We are finalizing the process and hope to have a message out by end of
> this
> week with instructions on how to utilize it.
>
> Walt Hagmaier
> Manager of Infrastructure @ IST (Mainframe, Unix, Windows, Storage,
> Backup,
> Data Center and Production Control) UC Berkeley
> [hidden email]   (510) 643-8609
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jon Forrest
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:05 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Micronet] Redhat Enterprise Unix Site License?
>
> I remember hearing rumors that the
> campus was in the process of negotiating a site license for RHEL. Did this
> ever get consummated?
>
> Jon
>
>
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> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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