[Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

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[Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Beth Muramoto
A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard versus a 128GB Solid State for their laptop.

Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to compare the storage size  of each so he can make an informed decision about which one is bigger?

Thanks!

Beth

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************




 
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Ian Crew
Hi Beth:

I guess I'm not understanding the question. The hard drive is 5.86 times the storage capacity of the SSD, but you can do that math as well as any of us.  Are you asking whether 128GB would be sufficient for his needs?  That's hard to judge.  Probably the best way would be to look at how much space he's using on his current computer...

For whatever that's worth (not much),

Ian

On Nov 26, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:

A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard versus a 128GB Solid State for their laptop.

Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to compare the storage size  of each so he can make an informed decision about which one is bigger?

Thanks!

Beth

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  [hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
- Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

-Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************





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___
Ian Crew
Platform and Services Manager, Research Hub

Content Management Technologies
IST-Architecture, Middleware and Common Applications
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley


 
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Baril
In reply to this post by Beth Muramoto
Beth,

The 750GB drive is larger capacity than the 128GB SSD. The fundamental
difference is that the SSD drive performs faster than the other.

Roy
On 11/26/2012 2:06 PM, Beth Muramoto wrote:

> A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard versus a 128GB Solid State for their laptop.
>
> Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to compare the storage size  of each so he can make an informed decision about which one is bigger?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Beth
>
> ***********************************************
> Beth Muramoto
> Computer Resource Specialist
> Graduate School of Education
> University of California, Berkeley
> 1650 Tolman Hall
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
> Phone:  (510) 643-0203
> Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
> The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
> - Tom Peters
>
> You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."
>
> -Stephen Covey
>
> I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.
>
> -Thomas Jefferson
>
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

--
Roy A. Baril
Director of Technology
Graduate School of Journalism
University of California
121 North Gate Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
510-643-9215 -- Work
510-643-9136 -- Fax
925-352-9543 -- Cell


 
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Jack Burris
In reply to this post by Beth Muramoto
It's like a shot of espresso versus the Grande

The speed of SSD drives is GREAT, but with some patience, the sizes of 1TB and bigger will be affordable probably this time next year.  One nice thing about SSD is how fast you can load your machine at startup.  But I still think there's a lot of room for improvement and I think we'll see prices of SSD close to what conventional drives cost today.

If this is for a laptop, consider the hybrid drives which give capacity, but have a small SSD as well to allow for really fast start-ups.  (And other than booting-up fast and running the same application, there aren't many more performance enhancements to, at least right now, jump for the higher-priced/lower capacity SSD hard drives.

UNLESS:

The person needs performance instead of capacity.  If they are doing graphic-intensive or number-crunching-intense processes, then you may want to factor that into the decision.

Here's a 2.5" drive I like (sorry for the long URL):



Note that the SSB drives do give a higher throughput, but that only works if your computer can handle that speed.  So in this case, the throughput is 6GB/s whereas most conventional drives are 3GB/s (but that assumes a person defrags their hard drive regularly).

A bit of patience and you will have a larger choice of larger SSDs at a lower price.

Hope that helps,
Jack Burris
SSCL


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard versus a 128GB Solid State for their laptop.

Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to compare the storage size  of each so he can make an informed decision about which one is bigger?

Thanks!

Beth

***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
                                - Tom Peters

You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage to say 'no' to other things."

                                -Stephen Covey

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

                                -Thomas Jefferson

***********************************************





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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

gartim
One BIG plus of micronet is stuff like this, nice to know! now litte the
ranting rage on,  thanks...g.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 02:33:45PM -0800, Jack BURRIS wrote:

>   It's like a shot of espresso versus the Grande
>   The speed of SSD drives is GREAT, but with some patience, the sizes of 1TB
>   and bigger will be affordable probably this time next year. �One nice
>   thing about SSD is how fast you can load your machine at startup. �But I
>   still think there's a lot of room for improvement and I think we'll see
>   prices of SSD close to what conventional drives cost today.
>   If this is for a laptop, consider the hybrid drives which give capacity,
>   but have a small SSD as well to allow for really fast start-ups. �(And
>   other than booting-up fast and running the same application, there aren't
>   many more performance enhancements to, at least right now, jump for the
>   higher-priced/lower capacity SSD hard drives.
>   UNLESS:
>   The person needs performance instead of capacity. �If they are doing
>   graphic-intensive or number-crunching-intense processes, then you may want
>   to factor that into the decision.
>   Here's a 2.5" drive I like (sorry for the long URL):
>   [1]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837
>   Seagate Momentus XT ST750LX003 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache 2.5" SATA 6.0Gb/s
>   Solid State Hybrid Drive -Bare Drive
>   750GB7200 RPM 32MB SSD Cache
>   SATA 6.0Gb/s
>   Note that the SSB drives do give a higher throughput, but that only works
>   if your computer can handle that speed. �So in this case, the throughput
>   is 6GB/s whereas most conventional drives are 3GB/s (but that assumes a
>   person defrags their hard drive regularly).
>   A bit of patience and you will have a larger choice of larger SSDs at a
>   lower price.
>   Hope that helps,
>   Jack Burris
>   SSCL
>
>   On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Beth Muramoto <[2][hidden email]>
>   wrote:
>
>     A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard versus a
>     128GB Solid State for their laptop.
>
>     Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to compare the
>     storage size �of each so he can make an informed decision about which
>     one is bigger?
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     Beth
>
>     ***********************************************
>     Beth Muramoto
>     Computer Resource Specialist
>     Graduate School of Education
>     University of California, Berkeley
>     1650 Tolman Hall
>     Berkeley, CA 94720
>     Email: �mailto:[3][hidden email]
>     Phone: �(510) 643-0203
>     Fax: �(510) 643-6239
>
>     The Formula for Success: �Underpromise, overdeliver.
>     � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � - Tom Peters
>
>     You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the courage
>     to say 'no' to other things."
>
>     � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � -Stephen Covey
>
>     I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I
>     have of it.
>
>     � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � -Thomas Jefferson
>
>     ***********************************************
>
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>     server:
>
>     To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>     unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>     meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
>     [4]http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
>     Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>     and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.
>     �This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>     prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>References
>
>   Visible links
>   1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837
>   2. mailto:[hidden email]
>   3. mailto:[hidden email]
>   4. http://micronet.berkeley.edu/

>
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Yau-Man Chan-2
In reply to this post by Jack Burris
Total agree.  We have been extending the life of many laptops -
especially MacBooks by replacing the drives with SSD.  At this point,
the average price is about $1 per GB for up to 250GB.  Anything bigger
the price is much higher.  We have put in 200GB SSD on MacBooks and
MacBook Pro that are 6 or 7 years old (yea, the white ones are a pain to
open up!) and even those with only 2GB memory are now very much usable.
Some of these MacBooks came with only 80 or 100 GB disks so 200GB is an
upgrade!   For Dell Latitudes, you can replace the drive much more
easily - but only worth it for the D620/D820 and newer models that has
SATA interface. (Tried SSD upgrade for a D600 with IDE interface -
didn't do much!)  On the Dell D620 with 100GB SSD, and 4GB memory it
cold boots Win 7 in less than 30 seconds (10secs of which is the BIOS
preboot).  It can simultaneously load 5 big programs - PhotoShop 6,
Illustrator 6, Word, Excel and PowerPoint 2010 - in 15 seconds.  I've
edited a 36Meg RAW image from a full-frame Canon camera on it in
Photoshop and there were no lag or delay time at all in any actions.  I
think you get a lot of benefits especially if you don't have that much
memory in your computer and the programs you are running have to do a
lot of dynamic-linking and disk swapping - like Photoshop - that's when
you really notice the increase in speed and responsiveness of having a
SSD drive.  As Jack pointed out, if you cannot afford a big SSD, go for
the Hybrid - a 500GB Seagate MomentusXT from CDW-G under the UC contract
is only $80!

But there's always the down side:
1. Believe it or not, SSD draws more power - a 250GB SSD draws 2 amps
(Crucial Memory 256GB SSD) whereas 7200RPM 500GB disk (Apple's Hitachi)
draws only 0.8 amps.  Go figure - but the SSD runs much cooler. It's
more efficient but keeps drawing power continuously.  Mechanical drives
draw power when it starts up but in a steady-state it draws less but
runs hot. So, if your laptop's fan comes on regularly because your drive
heats up the computer, it's a wash when it comes to battery life. The
Seagate 500GB hybrid which draws only 0.58 amps runs very hot- hot to
touch!

2. I have not found very definitive or reliable data on life-span and
reliability of SSD.  It's basically a large thumb drive packaged with a
SATA interface. Now anyone who has owned a thumb drive may have had one
that just "died" and becomes unreadable. So, until there is some
reliable data on their reliability, I would hesitate to use SSD's for
servers.


Yau-Man Chan
Chief Technology Officer
College of Chemistry
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-1460

Office: 510-643-1034
FAX: 510-643-6178
chemistry.berkeley.edu
[hidden email]

On 11/26/12 2:33 PM, Jack BURRIS wrote:

> It's like a shot of espresso versus the Grande
>
> The speed of SSD drives is GREAT, but with some patience, the sizes of
> 1TB and bigger will be affordable probably this time next year.  One
> nice thing about SSD is how fast you can load your machine at startup.
>  But I still think there's a lot of room for improvement and I think
> we'll see prices of SSD close to what conventional drives cost today.
>
> If this is for a laptop, consider the hybrid drives which give
> capacity, but have a small SSD as well to allow for really fast
> start-ups.  (And other than booting-up fast and running the same
> application, there aren't many more performance enhancements to, at
> least right now, jump for the higher-priced/lower capacity SSD hard
> drives.
>
> UNLESS:
>
> The person needs performance instead of capacity.  If they are doing
> graphic-intensive or number-crunching-intense processes, then you may
> want to factor that into the decision.
>
> Here's a 2.5" drive I like (sorry for the long URL):
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837
>
> Seagate Momentus XT ST750LX003 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache 2.5" SATA
> 6.0Gb/s Solid State Hybrid Drive -Bare Drive
> 750GB
> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837>7200
> RPM 32MB SSD Cache
> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837>SATA
> 6.0Gb/s <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837>
>
> Note that the SSB drives do give a higher throughput, but that only
> works if your computer can handle that speed.  So in this case, the
> throughput is 6GB/s whereas most conventional drives are 3GB/s (but
> that assumes a person defrags their hard drive regularly).
>
> A bit of patience and you will have a larger choice of larger SSDs at
> a lower price.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Jack Burris
> SSCL
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Beth Muramoto <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     A faculty person is debating purchasing a 750GB 5400 RPM hard
>     versus a 128GB Solid State for their laptop.
>
>     Is there a simple "calculation" that I can get about how to
>     compare the storage size  of each so he can make an informed
>     decision about which one is bigger?
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     Beth
>
>     ***********************************************
>     Beth Muramoto
>     Computer Resource Specialist
>     Graduate School of Education
>     University of California, Berkeley
>     1650 Tolman Hall
>     Berkeley, CA 94720
>     Email:  mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     Phone:  (510) 643-0203
>     Fax:  (510) 643-6239
>
>     The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver.
>                                     - Tom Peters
>
>     You have to decide what your highest priorities are and have the
>     courage to say 'no' to other things."
>
>                                     -Stephen Covey
>
>     I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the
>     more I have of it.
>
>                                     -Thomas Jefferson
>
>     ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>     server:
>
>     To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>     unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>     upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
>     http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
>     Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>     world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>     searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed
>     by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people
>     who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
>
>  
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Jay Bryon
 From what I've been reading, a good SSD is more complex than just a
thumb drive.  There are things like sandforce, wear leveling,
overprovisioning etc etc that supposedly reduce the possibility of a
complete dysfunction.  Note that I said *good* SSD, some of them are
notably sad and tend to slow down over time, and may indeed resemble a
thumb drive writ large.

 From what I understand, MTBF is actually considerably higher than your
standard issue HD now(again, for the good ones), but given how new they
are, we still need to see how they do in the real world.

I would have no problem with a well backed up SSD in a server (which
should be backed up anyway, right?), as long as you have a good HD ready
to take over should it die, and the resulting performance hit isn't
crippling for the application.

But I'm a Network Engineer, not a sysadmin (although I was one a very
long time ago, when PPC Macs and Pentium PCs roamed the earth).

-J

On 11/27/12 11:27 AM, Yau-Man Chan wrote:
> ...
> 2. I have not found very definitive or reliable data on life-span and
> reliability of SSD.  It's basically a large thumb drive packaged with a
> SATA interface. Now anyone who has owned a thumb drive may have had one
> that just "died" and becomes unreadable. So, until there is some
> reliable data on their reliability, I would hesitate to use SSD's for
> servers.
>


 
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Re: [Micronet] Storage Capacity comparison

Rene Viray
I've decided to go with 60 SSD drives in our instructional CAD Lab in
Fall 2010 when we upgraded all 60 PCs with
Intel Core i3 motherboards -- gutted out the old HP Pentium IV
motherboards and kept the chassis.  Windows 7 is SSD
aware so it doesn't  swap to it much nor defragment it and also has
TRIM support.

None of the SSDs have gone bad yet -- knock on wood.  These were
Crucial Real SSD C300 -- 64Gb.
Expensive at that time but it sure made everything really fast. CAD
programs load really quick -- Windows 7 in seconds.
As I've always told those who's willing to listen:  "Perception of
Speed is really relative -- it's how quick you perceive it when you
click the mouse button
to load the program" . No amount of Processor Speed specs will make
it load faster.

Now the prices of SSDs are going down, I'm looking to upgrading
capacity on the computers since software apps just keep eating up
disk space and
the 60Gb is really not practical now.

So, if you want to add more life to your old PCs, you can still
extend it by throwing in an SSD drive in it. However, make sure you have
Windows 7 in it. Definitely -- no  Windows XPs.

Rene


At 12:36 PM 11/27/2012, Jay Bryon wrote:

>  From what I've been reading, a good SSD is more complex than just a
>thumb drive.  There are things like sandforce, wear leveling,
>overprovisioning etc etc that supposedly reduce the possibility of a
>complete dysfunction.  Note that I said *good* SSD, some of them are
>notably sad and tend to slow down over time, and may indeed resemble a
>thumb drive writ large.
>
>  From what I understand, MTBF is actually considerably higher than your
>standard issue HD now(again, for the good ones), but given how new they
>are, we still need to see how they do in the real world.
>
>I would have no problem with a well backed up SSD in a server (which
>should be backed up anyway, right?), as long as you have a good HD ready
>to take over should it die, and the resulting performance hit isn't
>crippling for the application.
>
>But I'm a Network Engineer, not a sysadmin (although I was one a very
>long time ago, when PPC Macs and Pentium PCs roamed the earth).
>
>-J
>
>On 11/27/12 11:27 AM, Yau-Man Chan wrote:
> > ...
> > 2. I have not found very definitive or reliable data on life-span and
> > reliability of SSD.  It's basically a large thumb drive packaged with a
> > SATA interface. Now anyone who has owned a thumb drive may have had one
> > that just "died" and becomes unreadable. So, until there is some
> > reliable data on their reliability, I would hesitate to use SSD's for
> > servers.
> >
>
>
>
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Rene Viray
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