[Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

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[Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Christopher Brooks
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Richard DeShong-2
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Guy D. VINSON
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199


 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Christopher Brooks
Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion, but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so, but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.

What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't notice.

The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.

_Christopher



On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



 
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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)

 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Guy D. VINSON
Fast and dirty solution is to create a separate email account with gmail and include that address on your list. Also set that gmail account to forward to your bmail account so you don't have to check it separately. 


Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion, but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so, but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.

What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't notice.

The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.

_Christopher




On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



 
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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Guy D. VINSON
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
If the PI is able to get email surely they can download a shared file from Box? Also I have simply removed the file extension from a file that would cause "issues" and instructed the user to simply replace it when they downloaded the file when I have had to send a executable. I have not done that is some time so don't know if that works with bmail or not. 


Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion, but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so, but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.

What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't notice.

The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.

_Christopher




On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



 
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-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Josh Kwan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Hi Christopher,

You can get around the Google Apps file type blocking using a little
encryption:

ENCRYPT with Blowfish cipher:

tar -cvf - test.bat | openssl bf -k secretpassword > test.tar.bf

DECRYPT:

openssl bf -d -k secretpassword < test.tar.bf | tar -xv

Of course, the NSA will flag this data and keep indefinitely, but
C'est la vie, at least your friend got the batch file. ;)

Josh
- --
Josh Kwan <[hidden email]>
IT Security Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
https://security.berkeley.edu
510.664.9905

On 6/26/13 9:31 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:

> If the PI is able to get email surely they can download a shared
> file from Box? Also I have simply removed the file extension from a
> file that would cause "issues" and instructed the user to simply
> replace it when they downloaded the file when I have had to send a
> executable. I have not done that is some time so don't know if that
> works with bmail or not.
>
>
> Guy Vinson Infrastructure & IT College of Environmental Design
> University of California at Berkeley 510-842-7199
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that
> the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain
> if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion,
> but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the
> files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive
> and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so,
> but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and
> abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.
>
> What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or
> later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't
> notice.
>
> The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to
> get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account
> was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to
> the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.
>
> _Christopher
>
>
>
>
> On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
>> Also Box for sharing...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Christopher, Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects
>> that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid
>> any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail. The
>> conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my
>> inbox.
>>
>> Three small issues: 1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a
>> tar file that contains a .bat file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was
>> trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar file so that they could
>> replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a net-nanny
>> interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar file
>> up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server
>> is a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.
>>
>> 2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these
>> lists, it seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I
>> never receive it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer
>> determine if an email list is working unless I subscribe another
>> address to the list and check that address.  FWIW - In the
>> pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the some campus gateway
>> toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also not correct.
>> When I send email, I want the email.
>>
>> 3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley
>> or Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My
>> guess is that email on a Google-based solution is more likely to
>> be sent to our friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution
>> in part because a FISA order for meta-data to Google could get
>> more information because Google is larger than Berkeley.  Of
>> course, I have no real information about this, it is only
>> conjecture.
>>
>> On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by
>> moving to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage
>> or significant network isolation of campus will help us determine
>> if we are indeed getting increased reliability or if there is
>> something in how we access email via the web that requires campus
>> resources.
>>
>> My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to
>> the new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now
>> that we are using Google resources, it would take far more effort
>> than it did in the past to get policies changed.
>>
>> _Christopher
>>
>> -- Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of
>> California Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail:
>> 337 Cory Hall CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm
>> Berkeley, CA 94720-1774 [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>, 707.332.0670           (Office:
>> 545Q Cory)
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by

>> the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center,
>> U.C.Berkeley 164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
>> 510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu <http://asc.berkeley.edu>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by the

>> list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Guy Vinson Infrastructure & IT College of Environmental Design
>> University of California at Berkeley 510-842-7199
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -- Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of
> California Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail:
> 337 Cory Hall CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm
> Berkeley, CA 94720-1774 [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>, 707.332.0670           (Office:
> 545Q Cory)
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched
> on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among
> others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have
> known you in the past.
>
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Richard DeShong-2
I get that when the user picks up their email using a desktop client, then the attachment is on their computer.  So if the user is somewhere without internet access, then they still have access to the file.  Simply sharing the file in Drive will send them an email with a link.  They would have to act on this before they loose their internet connection.

If this type of collaboration is "normal", they you could setup the google sync (or box sync) for the user.  Then when you put a file into a shared folder, their sync program will create a local copy of the file on their system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Josh Kwan <[hidden email]> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Hi Christopher,

You can get around the Google Apps file type blocking using a little
encryption:

ENCRYPT with Blowfish cipher:

tar -cvf - test.bat | openssl bf -k secretpassword > test.tar.bf

DECRYPT:

openssl bf -d -k secretpassword < test.tar.bf | tar -xv

Of course, the NSA will flag this data and keep indefinitely, but
C'est la vie, at least your friend got the batch file. ;)

Josh
- --
Josh Kwan <[hidden email]>
IT Security Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
https://security.berkeley.edu
510.664.9905

On 6/26/13 9:31 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
> If the PI is able to get email surely they can download a shared
> file from Box? Also I have simply removed the file extension from a
> file that would cause "issues" and instructed the user to simply
> replace it when they downloaded the file when I have had to send a
> executable. I have not done that is some time so don't know if that
> works with bmail or not.
>
>
> Guy Vinson Infrastructure & IT College of Environmental Design
> University of California at Berkeley 510-842-7199
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that
> the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain
> if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion,
> but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the
> files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive
> and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so,
> but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and
> abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.
>
> What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or
> later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't
> notice.
>
> The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to
> get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account
> was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to
> the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.
>
> _Christopher
>
>
>
>
> On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
>> Also Box for sharing...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Christopher, Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects
>> that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid
>> any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail. The
>> conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my
>> inbox.
>>
>> Three small issues: 1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a
>> tar file that contains a .bat file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was
>> trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar file so that they could
>> replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a net-nanny
>> interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar file
>> up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server
>> is a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.
>>
>> 2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these
>> lists, it seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I
>> never receive it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer
>> determine if an email list is working unless I subscribe another
>> address to the list and check that address.  FWIW - In the
>> pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the some campus gateway
>> toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also not correct.
>> When I send email, I want the email.
>>
>> 3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley
>> or Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My
>> guess is that email on a Google-based solution is more likely to
>> be sent to our friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution
>> in part because a FISA order for meta-data to Google could get
>> more information because Google is larger than Berkeley.  Of
>> course, I have no real information about this, it is only
>> conjecture.
>>
>> On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by
>> moving to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage
>> or significant network isolation of campus will help us determine
>> if we are indeed getting increased reliability or if there is
>> something in how we access email via the web that requires campus
>> resources.
>>
>> My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to
>> the new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now
>> that we are using Google resources, it would take far more effort
>> than it did in the past to get policies changed.
>>
>> _Christopher
>>
>> -- Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of
>> California Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail:
>> 337 Cory Hall CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm
>> Berkeley, CA 94720-1774 [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>, 707.332.0670           (Office:
>> 545Q Cory)
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by
>> the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center,
>> U.C.Berkeley 164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
>> 510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu <http://asc.berkeley.edu>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by the
>> list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Guy Vinson Infrastructure & IT College of Environmental Design
>> University of California at Berkeley 510-842-7199
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
>> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and
>> searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be
>> viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and
>> people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -- Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of
> California Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail:
> 337 Cory Hall CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm
> Berkeley, CA 94720-1774 [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>, 707.332.0670           (Office:
> 545Q Cory)
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about
> upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
> world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched
> on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among
> others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have
> known you in the past.
>
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--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Noah Beil
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
Christopher,

This page has a solution for your mailing list problem (using filters):

http://serverfault.com/questions/124040/working-around-gmail-mailing-list-feature

-Noah



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion, but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so, but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.

What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't notice.

The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.

_Christopher




On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



 
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-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


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--
Noah Beil
Administrative and Departmental Computing Group Manager
UC Berkeley College of Engineering | BIOE, CEE, DECF, IEOR, ME, MSE, NE
[hidden email] | 510-642-2023

 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Terri Kouba
Kudos to Noah!  The filter works for me and now I receive the email I send to a mailing list. 
Thanks for finding the solution, Noah!

Terri


Noah Beil wrote, On 6/26/2013 4:36 PM:
Christopher,

This page has a solution for your mailing list problem (using filters):

http://serverfault.com/questions/124040/working-around-gmail-mailing-list-feature

-Noah



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the box and drive pointers.  Part of the issue is that the PI was getting on a trans-Atlantic plane and I was not certain if there would be wifi.  Yes, sending attachments is old fashion, but with busy people, it is more likely to work if they have the files right there with the message.  Somehow, .bat files in Drive and Box are more secure than at email attachments?  I guess so, but seems dubious at best.  Personally, I use version control and abhor attachments, but sometimes an attachment is best.

What about the mailing list issue, any ideas there?  Sooner or later, one of the mailing lists I manage will go down and I won't notice.

The alternatives are to move to another email provider or try to get tricky with forwarding.  Before the move, my CalMail account was forwarding mail to an archival gmail account and mail I sent to the mailing lists happily appeared at that account.

_Christopher




On 6/26/13 8:52 AM, Guy D. VINSON wrote:
Also Box for sharing...


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Christopher,
Re the sharing of files:  The google world expects that you will share files using Drive.  By doing so, you avoid any scrutiny of the file type or content by the email system.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks <[hidden email]> wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher

--
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)



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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--

Guy Vinson
Infrastructure & IT
College of Environmental Design
University of California at Berkeley
510-842-7199



 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


-- 
Christopher Brooks, PMP                       University of California
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer  US Mail: 337 Cory Hall
CHESS/iCyPhy/Ptolemy/TerraSwarm               Berkeley, CA 94720-1774
[hidden email], 707.332.0670           (Office: 545Q Cory)


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--
Noah Beil
Administrative and Departmental Computing Group Manager
UC Berkeley College of Engineering | BIOE, CEE, DECF, IEOR, ME, MSE, NE
[hidden email] | 510-642-2023


 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Bernie Rossi
In reply to this post by Christopher Brooks
Hi Christopher,

To answer some of your questions:

1.  Google has a list of attachment extensions that are not allowed and will be blocked:

.ade, .adp, .bat, .chm, .cmd, .com, .cpl, .exe, .hta, .ins, .isp, .jse, .lib, .mde, .msc, .msp, .mst, .pif, .scr, .sct, .shb, .sys, .vb, .vbe, .vbs, .vxd, .wsc, .wsf, .wsh

There are some solutions, but they all require the sender make changes to the attachment that the receiver would need to reverse:

http://www.jvfconsulting.com/blog/57/Trick_Gmail_Antivirus_Scanner_Send_Any_File_Type_with_Gmail_exe_dll_com_bat.html

2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder, you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam, cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they simply live with the issue.

Thanks,

Bernie



On 6/26/13 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The 
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat 
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar 
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a 
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar 
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is 
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it 
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive 
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email 
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check 
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the 
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also 
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or 
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that 
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our 
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA 
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google 
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about 
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving 
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or 
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are 
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we 
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the 
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are 
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the 
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher



 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Aron Roberts
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Bernie Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The best solution we have found, if you truly want to verify that your
> message was posted to a list, is to add an alternate address to the list
> that you will receive mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds,
> all who say they simply live with the issue.

Thanks, Bernie, for this detailed discussion.  For the Micronet list
and certain other campus mailing lists, you can also verify that your
messages were posted to the list by viewing the list archives.  (For
instance, for Micronet:
http://micronet-at-uc-berkeley.840177.n3.nabble.com/)  The archiver is
subscribed to the list, much like any other member.

Aron Roberts
IST-RIT

--

Hi Christopher,

To answer some of your questions:

1.  Google has a list of attachment extensions that are not allowed
and will be blocked:

.ade, .adp, .bat, .chm, .cmd, .com, .cpl, .exe, .hta, .ins, .isp,
.jse, .lib, .mde, .msc, .msp, .mst, .pif, .scr, .sct, .shb, .sys, .vb,
.vbe, .vbs, .vxd, .wsc, .wsf, .wsh

There are some solutions, but they all require the sender make changes
to the attachment that the receiver would need to reverse:

http://www.jvfconsulting.com/blog/57/Trick_Gmail_Antivirus_Scanner_Send_Any_File_Type_with_Gmail_exe_dll_com_bat.html

2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method
for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only
allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are
posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the
original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder,
you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's
solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam,
cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the
account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that
the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have
found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a
list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive
mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they
simply live with the issue.

>
> Thanks,
>
> Bernie
>
>
>
>
> On 6/26/13 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks wrote:
>
> My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The
> conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.
>
> Three small issues:
> 1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat
> file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar
> file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a
> net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar
> file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is
> a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.
>
> 2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it
> seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive
> it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email
> list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check
> that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the
> some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also
> not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.
>
> 3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or
> Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that
> email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our
> friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA
> order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google
> is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about
> this, it is only conjecture.
>
> On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving
> to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or
> significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are
> indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we
> access email via the web that requires campus resources.
>
> My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the
> new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are
> using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the
> past to get policies changed.
>
> _Christopher
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>

 
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Re: [Micronet] Three things about bmail: .bat files, mailing lists and the NSA

Christopher Brooks-2
In reply to this post by Bernie Rossi

Hi Bernie,
Sorry for the late response. I was on vacation. I have not had much of a chance to try things out.  

Thanks for looking in to this. 

Adding a second account does not meet my needs as I have probably over 100 lists hosted on many machines.  

I'll consider my options, such as moving to an ISP that delivers all the email.  I suspect that dropping email is a violation of a RFC somewhere. 

Sonic is my first stop.

_Christopher

(Sent from a device with a tiny keyboard)

Christopher Brooks
Academic Program Manager & Software Engineer
CHESS/iCyPhy/Prolemy/TerraSwarm
Cell: 707.332.0670

On Jun 28, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Bernie Rossi <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Christopher,

To answer some of your questions:

1.  Google has a list of attachment extensions that are not allowed and will be blocked:

.ade, .adp, .bat, .chm, .cmd, .com, .cpl, .exe, .hta, .ins, .isp, .jse, .lib, .mde, .msc, .msp, .mst, .pif, .scr, .sct, .shb, .sys, .vb, .vbe, .vbs, .vxd, .wsc, .wsf, .wsh

There are some solutions, but they all require the sender make changes to the attachment that the receiver would need to reverse:

http://www.jvfconsulting.com/blog/57/Trick_Gmail_Antivirus_Scanner_Send_Any_File_Type_with_Gmail_exe_dll_com_bat.html

2.  As we are all aware, Google de-dupes messages.  Google's method for de-duping is by comparing the Message ID of each message and only allowing one copy per Message ID in an account. Messages which are posted to mailing lists typically retain the same Message ID from the original message.  Since this message is already in your Sent folder, you will not receive it back to you as a posting to the list.  Noah's solution, which is very good for postings which are marked as spam, cannot capture the posted message since it is never received by the account.  CC'ing yourself on your message again does not verify that the posting actually went to the list. The best solution we have found, if you truly want to verify that your message was posted to a list, is to add an alternate address to the list that you will receive mail on. We have reached out to other higher-eds, all who say they simply live with the issue.

Thanks,

Bernie



On 6/26/13 7:53 AM, Christopher Brooks wrote:
My email account was converted over to Google-based bmail.  The 
conversion seemed to go ok, though it took me a moment to find my inbox.

Three small issues:
1) bmail/gmail does not allow me to send a tar file that contains a .bat 
file.  I'm no DOS fanboy, but I was trying to send a Mac-based PI a tar 
file so that they could replicate my work.  Having our mail system be a 
net-nanny interferes slightly with research.  My solution: put the tar 
file up on a website temporarily.  Blocking these files at the server is 
a quaint form of security and not something I want or need.

2) I run a number of mailing lists. When I send email to these lists, it 
seems that gmail helpfully deletes the email so that I never receive 
it.  This is not correct in that I can no longer determine if an email 
list is working unless I subscribe another address to the list and check 
that address.  FWIW - In the pre-bmail migration period, I've seen the 
some campus gateway toss multiple copies of a message in the past.  Also 
not correct.  When I send email, I want the email.

3) There could be an interesting discussion about who (Berkeley or 
Google) is more likely to turn over email to the NSA.  My guess is that 
email on a Google-based solution is more likely to be sent to our 
friends at the NSA than a Berkeley-based solution in part because a FISA 
order for meta-data to Google could get more information because Google 
is larger than Berkeley.  Of course, I have no real information about 
this, it is only conjecture.

On the upside, we hopefully are getting increased reliability by moving 
to a Google-based solution.  The first campus power outage or 
significant network isolation of campus will help us determine if we are 
indeed getting increased reliability or if there is something in how we 
access email via the web that requires campus resources.

My first two points are minor, but do indicate that the change to the 
new system was not 100% for the better.  Unfortunately, now that we are 
using Google resources, it would take far more effort than it did in the 
past to get policies changed.

_Christopher



 
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