[Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

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[Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Vivian Sophia
Hello Micronet,

To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to the following:
----------------begin text-----------
Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have interests in, the campus's support for computing services.

Goals:
* Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
* Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members, and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
-----------------end text------

If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.

You are welcome to make comments through Friday.


Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
(510) 541-6120


 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Graham Patterson

The text it will/would replace is on the Home tab at

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Graham


On 2/3/15 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:

> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.
>
>
> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> (510) 541-6120
>
>
>
>  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>


--
Graham Patterson, Systems Administrator
Lawrence Hall of Science, UC Berkeley   510-643-1984
"...past the iguana, the tyrannosaurus, the mastodon, the mathematical
puzzles, and the meteorite..." - used to be the directions to my office.

 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Aron Roberts
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Graham Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:

The text it will/would replace is on the Home tab at

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

  That's correct. And the full version of Micronet's current charter, which we believe was adopted almost 25 years ago, on May 8, 1990 - and which we're proposing to update to the language that Vivian Sophia sent out - can be found here:

  http://micronet.berkeley.edu/about

  Thanks, Graham!

Aron Roberts
Research IT


On 2/3/15 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.
>
>
> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120">(510) 541-6120
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>


--
Graham Patterson, Systems Administrator
Lawrence Hall of Science, UC Berkeley   <a href="tel:510-643-1984" value="+15106431984">510-643-1984
"...past the iguana, the tyrannosaurus, the mastodon, the mathematical
puzzles, and the meteorite..." - used to be the directions to my office.


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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Rune Stromsness
In reply to this post by Vivian Sophia
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:

> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.
I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> (510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]



 
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http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Aron Roberts
Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."

That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...

Aron

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.

I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120">(510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]




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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.



 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Richard DeShong-2
Maybe...

Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


The "voluntary professional" phrasing was irking me.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."

That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...

Aron

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.

I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]




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http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Vivian Sophia
Richard,

I would prefer not to remove the idea that it is a professional organization. How about:

Micronet is a voluntary organization for professionals of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services. 




Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe...

Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


The "voluntary professional" phrasing was irking me.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."

That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...

Aron

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.

I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]




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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.




--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
<a href="tel:510-642-5123" value="+15106425123" target="_blank">510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Aron Roberts
In reply to this post by Richard DeShong-2
And to riff a bit on Richard's proposed alternative, here, with its admirable streamlining that also still captures Rune's point about broader inclusiveness ...

1. "Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

... yet two more possibilities, substituting "voluntary organization" for "organization of volunteers," and "an interest in" for "interest in":

2. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for those who are involved with, or have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

or, substituting "people" for "those":

3. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for people who are involved with, or have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

Or, substituting "are interested in" for "have an interest in":

4. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for people who are involved with, or are interested in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

As for "voluntary organization," see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association.

And as for the addition of "an" to form "an interest in," see http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/47494/which-one-is-correct-sentence-between-i-have-interest-in-which-is-and-i-have ("interest" as a noun) and http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2404820&s=6648930bf0d6588af7253d9a33a63e34&p=12095099#post12095099 (with "interest" implying potential benefit, going beyond - although still encompassing - mere interest).

I'm personally fine with either Richard's suggestion to discard "professional" from "voluntary professional organization," or with Vivian's to retain it, in the following form or otherwise:

5. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for professionals of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Others' thoughts about "professional," in particular, as well on any of the alternatives above?

Aron


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
And to riff a bit on Richard's proposed alternative, here, with its admirable streamlining that also still captures Rune's point about broader inclusiveness ...

"Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

... yet one more possibility:

"Micronet is a voluntary organization for those who are involved with, or have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus."

(As for "voluntary organization," see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association. And as for the addition of "an" in "an interest in," see http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/47494/which-one-is-correct-sentence-between-i-have-interest-in-which-is-and-i-have ("interest" as a noun) and http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2404820&s=6648930bf0d6588af7253d9a33a63e34&p=12095099#post12095099 (with "interest" implying potential benefit, going beyond - although still encompassing - mere interest).)

I'm personally onboard with Richard's suggestion to discard "professional" from "voluntary professional organization." Others' thoughts?


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe...

Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


The "voluntary professional" phrasing was irking me.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."

That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...

Aron

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.

I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]




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164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
<a href="tel:510-642-5123" value="+15106425123" target="_blank">510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu



 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Richard DeShong-2
In reply to this post by Vivian Sophia
I definitely get the allure of "professional".  It sounds so much better than the opposite. ;)

We here in the ASC have recently been unintentionally slighted by a response to a report that seemed to imply that what we do is un-professional.  So I am a bit critical of the word at the moment.  If we describe the organization as "professional", then does that mean that if IT is just your hobby, then don't bother joining?  And "professional organization" sounds a bit like the Geek Squad - even though we're volunteers, we are all waiting for the call so we can go out and fix your problem.

The question then is, what kind of an organization is it?  I know you just had a meeting where that was on the agenda.  I intended to attend, but circumstances changed.  So please forgive, if this has already been discussed.





 

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Vivian Sophia <[hidden email]> wrote:
Richard,

I would prefer not to remove the idea that it is a professional organization. How about:

Micronet is a voluntary organization for professionals of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services. 




Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe...

Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


The "voluntary professional" phrasing was irking me.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."

That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...

Aron

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
> Hello Micronet,
>
> To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
> created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it to
> the following:
> ----------------begin text-----------
> Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
> University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or have
> interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>
> Goals:
> * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of campus
> information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
> discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
> * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's members,
> and between its members and those of other complementary campus groups.
> -----------------end text------
>
> If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
> used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>
> You are welcome to make comments through Friday.

I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
University of California employees from other campuses or locations
located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
computing services.

I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:

"Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
services."


I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
from the one next door.

I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
and attend some of the meetings.


Rune


> Vivian Sophia
> Berkeley IT (CSS)
> Business/Tech Support Analyst
> University of California, Berkeley
> 310B Durant Hall
> <a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120
>

--
Rune Stromsness
LBLnet Manager
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
[hidden email]




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--
Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
<a href="tel:510-642-5123" value="+15106425123" target="_blank">510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu


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164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Vivian Sophia
If we say that the organization is "for" professionals and others who are involved with, etc.

that doesn't leave out anybody who would like to be included. And it's not exactly the same as a "professional organization".

But to respond to your question, what we all agreed on at the meeting, I think, is that we want to be inclusive and independent.

I believe we also all agree that Micronet is about IT.

It's okay with me if we don't specify anything about who can join, since it is open to all. Something like:

Micronet is an organization for people who are involved with, or have interests in, computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
I definitely get the allure of "professional".  It sounds so much better than the opposite. ;)

We here in the ASC have recently been unintentionally slighted by a response to a report that seemed to imply that what we do is un-professional.  So I am a bit critical of the word at the moment.  If we describe the organization as "professional", then does that mean that if IT is just your hobby, then don't bother joining?  And "professional organization" sounds a bit like the Geek Squad - even though we're volunteers, we are all waiting for the call so we can go out and fix your problem.

The question then is, what kind of an organization is it?  I know you just had a meeting where that was on the agenda.  I intended to attend, but circumstances changed.  So please forgive, if this has already been discussed.




 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Richard DeShong-2
+1  (I like it).

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Vivian Sophia <[hidden email]> wrote:
If we say that the organization is "for" professionals and others who are involved with, etc.

that doesn't leave out anybody who would like to be included. And it's not exactly the same as a "professional organization".

But to respond to your question, what we all agreed on at the meeting, I think, is that we want to be inclusive and independent.

I believe we also all agree that Micronet is about IT.

It's okay with me if we don't specify anything about who can join, since it is open to all. Something like:

Micronet is an organization for people who are involved with, or have interests in, computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
I definitely get the allure of "professional".  It sounds so much better than the opposite. ;)

We here in the ASC have recently been unintentionally slighted by a response to a report that seemed to imply that what we do is un-professional.  So I am a bit critical of the word at the moment.  If we describe the organization as "professional", then does that mean that if IT is just your hobby, then don't bother joining?  And "professional organization" sounds a bit like the Geek Squad - even though we're volunteers, we are all waiting for the call so we can go out and fix your problem.

The question then is, what kind of an organization is it?  I know you just had a meeting where that was on the agenda.  I intended to attend, but circumstances changed.  So please forgive, if this has already been discussed.





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164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu

 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Ian Crew
In reply to this post by Vivian Sophia
I’ve always thought of Micronet as the group on campus for folks whose day job is IT, so leaving out “professional” seems like an odd omission to me.  To me, Micronet isn’t just a place to come an hang out if you’re a bit interested in IT, but rather the place to come if you’re an IT pro on campus, looking for mutual support from other folks facing similar challenges.

My 2 cents, at least.

Ian

On Feb 3, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Vivian Sophia <[hidden email]> wrote:

If we say that the organization is "for" professionals and others who are involved with, etc.

that doesn't leave out anybody who would like to be included. And it's not exactly the same as a "professional organization".

But to respond to your question, what we all agreed on at the meeting, I think, is that we want to be inclusive and independent.

I believe we also all agree that Micronet is about IT.

It's okay with me if we don't specify anything about who can join, since it is open to all. Something like:

Micronet is an organization for people who are involved with, or have interests in, computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank" class="">(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
I definitely get the allure of "professional".  It sounds so much better than the opposite. ;)

We here in the ASC have recently been unintentionally slighted by a response to a report that seemed to imply that what we do is un-professional.  So I am a bit critical of the word at the moment.  If we describe the organization as "professional", then does that mean that if IT is just your hobby, then don't bother joining?  And "professional organization" sounds a bit like the Geek Squad - even though we're volunteers, we are all waiting for the call so we can go out and fix your problem.

The question then is, what kind of an organization is it?  I know you just had a meeting where that was on the agenda.  I intended to attend, but circumstances changed.  So please forgive, if this has already been discussed.




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___
Ian Crew

IST-Architecture, Platforms and Integration (API)
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley


 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Vivian Sophia
Thanks, Ian, me too!



Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Ian Crew <[hidden email]> wrote:
I’ve always thought of Micronet as the group on campus for folks whose day job is IT, so leaving out “professional” seems like an odd omission to me.  To me, Micronet isn’t just a place to come an hang out if you’re a bit interested in IT, but rather the place to come if you’re an IT pro on campus, looking for mutual support from other folks facing similar challenges.

My 2 cents, at least.

Ian

On Feb 3, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Vivian Sophia <[hidden email]> wrote:

If we say that the organization is "for" professionals and others who are involved with, etc.

that doesn't leave out anybody who would like to be included. And it's not exactly the same as a "professional organization".

But to respond to your question, what we all agreed on at the meeting, I think, is that we want to be inclusive and independent.

I believe we also all agree that Micronet is about IT.

It's okay with me if we don't specify anything about who can join, since it is open to all. Something like:

Micronet is an organization for people who are involved with, or have interests in, computing services at the University of California, Berkeley campus.


Vivian Sophia
Berkeley IT (CSS)
Business/Tech Support Analyst
University of California, Berkeley
310B Durant Hall
<a href="tel:%28510%29%20541-6120" value="+15105416120" target="_blank">(510) 541-6120


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]> wrote:
I definitely get the allure of "professional".  It sounds so much better than the opposite. ;)

We here in the ASC have recently been unintentionally slighted by a response to a report that seemed to imply that what we do is un-professional.  So I am a bit critical of the word at the moment.  If we describe the organization as "professional", then does that mean that if IT is just your hobby, then don't bother joining?  And "professional organization" sounds a bit like the Geek Squad - even though we're volunteers, we are all waiting for the call so we can go out and fix your problem.

The question then is, what kind of an organization is it?  I know you just had a meeting where that was on the agenda.  I intended to attend, but circumstances changed.  So please forgive, if this has already been discussed.




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___
Ian Crew

IST-Architecture, Platforms and Integration (API)
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley



 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

walt
In reply to this post by Aron Roberts
Thoughts:

I tend to favor simplicity.  Based on how the message reads (not on whether it's technically correct), No. 2 seems to flow nicely.

The word "professional" can mean different things.  Does a professional have to be paid by the organization, like a pro football player?  Is the term limited to the learned professions? (Probably not, today, but what else is included?)  I usually shy away from ambiguous words.  Unless I don't want to be pinned down. Which, sometimes, is a good reason to use such a word.

-Walt Pyle

-----Original Message-----
From: "Aron Roberts" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:01pm
To: "Richard DESHONG" <[hidden email]>, "Rune Stromsness" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

 
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And to riff a bit on Richard's proposed alternative, here, with its
admirable streamlining that also still captures Rune's point about broader
inclusiveness ...

1. "Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or
have interest in, the support of computing services at the University of
California, Berkeley campus."

... yet two more possibilities, substituting "voluntary organization" for
"organization of volunteers," and "an interest in" for "interest in":

2. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for those who are involved with,
or have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University
of California, Berkeley campus."

or, substituting "people" for "those":

3. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for people who are involved with,
or have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University
of California, Berkeley campus."

Or, substituting "are interested in" for "have an interest in":

4. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for people who are involved with,
or are interested in, the support of computing services at the University
of California, Berkeley campus."

As for "voluntary organization," see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association.

And as for the addition of "an" to form "an interest in," see
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/47494/which-one-is-correct-sentence-between-i-have-interest-in-which-is-and-i-have
("interest" as a noun) and
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2404820&s=6648930bf0d6588af7253d9a33a63e34&p=12095099#post12095099
(with "interest" implying potential benefit, going beyond - although still
encompassing - mere interest).

I'm personally fine with either Richard's suggestion to discard
"professional" from "voluntary professional organization," or with Vivian's
to retain it, in the following form or otherwise:

5. "Micronet is a voluntary organization for professionals of the University
of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with, or have
interests in, that campus's support for computing services."

Others' thoughts about "professional," in particular, as well on any of the
alternatives above?

Aron


On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> And to riff a bit on Richard's proposed alternative, here, with its
> admirable streamlining that also still captures Rune's point about broader
> inclusiveness ...
>
> "Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have
> interest in, the support of computing services at the University of
> California, Berkeley campus."
>
> ... yet one more possibility:
>
> "Micronet is a voluntary organization for those who are involved with, or
> have an interest in, the support of computing services at the University
> of California, Berkeley campus."
>
> (As for "voluntary organization," see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association. And as for the
> addition of "an" in "an interest in," see
> http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/47494/which-one-is-correct-sentence-between-i-have-interest-in-which-is-and-i-have
> ("interest" as a noun) and
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2404820&s=6648930bf0d6588af7253d9a33a63e34&p=12095099#post12095099
> (with "interest" implying potential benefit, going beyond - although still
> encompassing - mere interest).)
>
> I'm personally onboard with Richard's suggestion to discard "professional"
> from "voluntary professional organization." Others' thoughts?
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Richard DESHONG <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe...
>>
>> Micronet is an organization of volunteers who are involved with, or have
>> interest in, the support of computing services at the University of
>> California, Berkeley campus.
>>
>>
>> The "voluntary professional" phrasing was irking me.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Aron Roberts <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rune suggests a change of Micronet's proposed new charter to:
>>>
>>> "Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
>>> University of California who are involved with, or have interests in, the
>>> University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing services."
>>>
>>> That seems eminently reasonable, and is more inclusive. One alternate
>>> wording suggestion, also capturing affiliates, contractors, vendor
>>> representatives (yes, we have several of those on the list!) and their like:
>>>
>>> "Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
>>> University of California, Berkeley campus and others who are involved with,
>>> or have interests in, that campus's support for computing services."
>>>
>>> Additional alternatives and/or wordsmithing welcomed ...
>>>
>>> Aron
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Rune Stromsness <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/3/2015 11:28 AM, Vivian Sophia wrote:
>>>> > Hello Micronet,
>>>> >
>>>> > To reflect the fact that Micronet has changed since its charter was
>>>> > created 25 years ago, Aron, Ian and I are proposing that we change it
>>>> to
>>>> > the following:
>>>> > ----------------begin text-----------
>>>> > Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
>>>> > University of California, Berkeley campus who are involved with, or
>>>> have
>>>> > interests in, the campus's support for computing services.
>>>> >
>>>> > Goals:
>>>> > * Provide forums, both online and in-person, for announcements of
>>>> campus
>>>> > information technology-related events, services, and projects, and for
>>>> > discussion of topics pertinent to campus computing support.
>>>> > * Facilitate constructive interactions among the organization's
>>>> members,
>>>> > and between its members and those of other complementary campus
>>>> groups.
>>>> > -----------------end text------
>>>> >
>>>> > If approved by you, the membership of Micronet, this charter will be
>>>> > used to describe Micronet on the official staff organization web page.
>>>> >
>>>> > You are welcome to make comments through Friday.
>>>>
>>>> I realize that the existing charter also talks about "employees of the
>>>> University of California, Berkeley", but Micronet has included
>>>> University of California employees from other campuses or locations
>>>> located very near Berkeley (LBL, UCOP, CEB, etc.) and retirees who are
>>>> involved with or an interest in the Berkeley campus support for
>>>> computing services.
>>>>
>>>> I don't if anyone thinks that it would be useful to explicitly include
>>>> people like that, possibly by changing that first sentence slightly to:
>>>>
>>>> "Micronet is a voluntary professional organization for employees of the
>>>> University of California who are involved with, or have interests in,
>>>> the University of California, Berkeley campus's support for computing
>>>> services."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know that I certainly still find Micronet useful in my role at LBL --
>>>> thousands of the scientists who I support up here are dual-appointed and
>>>> are faculty or grad students at UC Berkeley, and in some cases LBL and
>>>> UCB share buildings with the "ownership" of one office or lab different
>>>> from the one next door.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that, regardless of whether the charter stays as drafted or
>>>> changes a bit, that I'll still be welcome to stay on the mailing list
>>>> and attend some of the meetings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rune
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Vivian Sophia
>>>> > Berkeley IT (CSS)
>>>> > Business/Tech Support Analyst
>>>> > University of California, Berkeley
>>>> > 310B Durant Hall
>>>> > (510) 541-6120
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rune Stromsness
>>>> LBLnet Manager
>>>> Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>>>> server:
>>>>
>>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>>>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>>>> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>>
>>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>>>> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
>>>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>>>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>>> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>>
>>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>>> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
>>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard DeShong, Systems Analyst, Athletic Study Center, U.C.Berkeley
>> 164 Chavez Student Center, Berkeley, CA, 94720-4220
>> 510-642-5123     asc.berkeley.edu
>>
>
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] UPDATED CHARTER comment period ending Friday

Ian Crew

On Feb 3, 2015, at 5:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

professional" can mean different things

Personally, I think it’s pretty clear, at least in this case: “professional” means “makes one’s living doing."

Ian

___
Ian Crew

IST-Architecture, Platforms and Integration (API)
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley


 
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