Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Zane C Cooper
At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our 2003 service.  We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.  However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with the Firefox and Safari browsers.

You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny invested.  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the most accurate of any I've worked with.

No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating away from CommunigatePro.


Zane Cooper
Chief Technology Officer
Haas School of Business
University of California Berkeley
(510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for diagnosing the problem.)

-Bill Clark

 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Bill Clark
I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates
that their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind
of hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if
they're as paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is
sold and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST did),
> and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say confidently
> that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our 2003 service.
> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each major
> release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access client is
> supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with the Firefox
> and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our Microsoft
> Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email security
> appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny invested.
>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all of
> the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas School
> receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the most
> accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it offers a
> very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source stack (or it
> used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating away from
> CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same point
> as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with Outlook for
> directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef with Exchange is
> that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server (or did, last time I
> used it anywhere.)  The most robust configurations I've seen all use some
> sort of higher-performance UNIX mail server as the primary public-facing
> server, which would then relay mail (over a private connection) to an
> internal Exchange server.  Then you get the best of both worlds: the
> performance, security, and standards-compliance of
> Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the integrated application support and
> rich feature set of Exchange.  It also allows you to have stricter control
> over the way messages are sent to the Exchange server, which can
> significantly reduce the number of data corruption issues (or at least
> give you a better platform for diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Lucy Greco
Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
exchange server.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates
that their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind
of hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if
they're as paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is
sold and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST did),
> and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say confidently
> that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our 2003 service.
> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each major
> release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access client is
> supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with the Firefox
> and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our Microsoft
> Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email security
> appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny invested.
>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all of
> the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas School
> receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the most
> accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it offers a
> very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source stack (or it
> used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating away from
> CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same point
> as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with Outlook for
> directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef with Exchange is
> that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server (or did, last time I
> used it anywhere.)  The most robust configurations I've seen all use some
> sort of higher-performance UNIX mail server as the primary public-facing
> server, which would then relay mail (over a private connection) to an
> internal Exchange server.  Then you get the best of both worlds: the
> performance, security, and standards-compliance of
> Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the integrated application support and
> rich feature set of Exchange.  It also allows you to have stricter control
> over the way messages are sent to the Exchange server, which can
> significantly reduce the number of data corruption issues (or at least
> give you a better platform for diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Zane C Cooper
There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not be collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office exchange server.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates that their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're as paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is sold and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our 2003 service.
> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny invested.
>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
> away from CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  
> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
> diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Walt Hagmaier
Fyi, a year ago we did look at having one Exchange service for campus. We
weren't looking to run it from IST but were looking at having UCSF run it.
Eventually UCSF begged off.
However, I just heard yesterday from UC Davis that they are willing to
explore running our Exchange services for us if we're interested. If you
are, please Mike Blasingame to let him know and IST again will assist in
coordinating that effort.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have
Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not be
collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
exchange server.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates that
their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of
hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're as
paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is sold
and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our
2003 service.

> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny
invested.

>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
> away from CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  
> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
> diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
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visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Bill Clark
What exactly should we do to please Mike Blasingame?  Does he like
cookies? :)

-Bill Clark

> Fyi, a year ago we did look at having one Exchange service for campus. We
> weren't looking to run it from IST but were looking at having UCSF run it.
> Eventually UCSF begged off.
> However, I just heard yesterday from UC Davis that they are willing to
> explore running our Exchange services for us if we're interested. If you
> are, please Mike Blasingame to let him know and IST again will assist in
> coordinating that effort.
>
> Walt Hagmaier
> Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
> UC Berkeley
> (510) 643-8609
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have
> Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not
> be
> collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
> exchange server.
>
> Lucy Greco
> Assistive Technology Specialist
> University of California, Berkeley
> http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
> (510) 643-7591
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
> anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates
> that
> their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of
> hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're
> as
> paranoid about security as they seem.
>
> So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
> describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is
> sold
> and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.
>
> On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
> poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
> working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
> surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
> when switching over to Exchange.
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
>> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
>> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our
> 2003 service.
>> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
>> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
>> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
>> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
>> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>>
>> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
>> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
>> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
>> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every
>> penny
> invested.
>>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
>> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
>> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
>> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>>
>> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
>> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
>> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
>> away from CommunigatePro.
>>
>>
>> Zane Cooper
>> Chief Technology Officer
>> Haas School of Business
>> University of California Berkeley
>> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
>> To: Zane Cooper
>> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
>> Capabilities
>>
>> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
>> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
>> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
>> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
>> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
>> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
>> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
>> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.
>> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
>> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
>> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
>> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
>> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
>> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
>> diagnosing the problem.)
>>
>> -Bill Clark
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Lucy Greco
In reply to this post by Walt Hagmaier
What would be needed is everyone to agree that that is what we need and then
it would be a standard. this is Berkeley and we all know that is not going
to happen.  every one here wants the chance to be different. If I could have
an exchange server I would not have to manage.. But who is going to
troubleshoot it and set my users up and make sure they are using it me so
once again it is more work even if Davis helps us I think the only way
something like this could happen is if we had a centralized IT department.
That did everyone's desktop support and made the decisions on applications
and operating systems. However at Berkeley we are all unique and have
different needs and use different tools to do the same thing. It's a
Catch-22 no matter what way we go.
Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Hagmaier [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:02 PM
To: 'Zane Cooper'; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: Mike Blasingame
Subject: RE: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Fyi, a year ago we did look at having one Exchange service for campus. We
weren't looking to run it from IST but were looking at having UCSF run it.
Eventually UCSF begged off.
However, I just heard yesterday from UC Davis that they are willing to
explore running our Exchange services for us if we're interested. If you
are, please Mike Blasingame to let him know and IST again will assist in
coordinating that effort.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have
Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not be
collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
exchange server.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates that
their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of
hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're as
paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is sold
and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our
2003 service.

> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny
invested.

>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
> away from CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  
> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
> diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Mike BLASINGAME
In reply to this post by Bill Clark
Cookies would be appreciated, but they are not required! :)

As Walt mentioned, if you are interested in having UC Davis run Exchange services for UC Berkeley, let me know.

The IST Enterprise Windows Team has implemented the Exchange schema in the CalNet Active Directory forest.  We manage the root Exchange 2007 server infrastructure and offer a consulting service for Exchange Server Administrators to authorize the installation of their departments’ Exchange servers in their respective environments.  See http://ist.berkeley.edu/services/is/ms-exchange for additional information.


Mike Blasingame
Manager, Enterprise Windows Team


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:04 PM
To: Walt Hagmaier
Cc: Zane Cooper; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; Mike BLASINGAME
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

What exactly should we do to please Mike Blasingame?  Does he like
cookies? :)

-Bill Clark

> Fyi, a year ago we did look at having one Exchange service for campus. We
> weren't looking to run it from IST but were looking at having UCSF run it.
> Eventually UCSF begged off.
> However, I just heard yesterday from UC Davis that they are willing to
> explore running our Exchange services for us if we're interested. If you
> are, please Mike Blasingame to let him know and IST again will assist in
> coordinating that effort.
>
> Walt Hagmaier
> Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
> UC Berkeley
> (510) 643-8609
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have
> Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not
> be
> collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
> exchange server.
>
> Lucy Greco
> Assistive Technology Specialist
> University of California, Berkeley
> http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
> (510) 643-7591
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.
>
> I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
> anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates
> that
> their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of
> hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're
> as
> paranoid about security as they seem.
>
> So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
> describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is
> sold
> and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.
>
> On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
> poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
> working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
> surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
> when switching over to Exchange.
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
>> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
>> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our
> 2003 service.
>> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
>> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
>> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
>> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
>> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>>
>> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
>> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
>> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
>> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every
>> penny
> invested.
>>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
>> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
>> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
>> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>>
>> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
>> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
>> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
>> away from CommunigatePro.
>>
>>
>> Zane Cooper
>> Chief Technology Officer
>> Haas School of Business
>> University of California Berkeley
>> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
>> To: Zane Cooper
>> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
>> Capabilities
>>
>> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
>> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
>> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
>> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
>> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
>> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
>> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
>> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.
>> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
>> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
>> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
>> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
>> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
>> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
>> diagnosing the problem.)
>>
>> -Bill Clark
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Walt Hagmaier
In reply to this post by Lucy Greco
Yes people here all want to be different, but we can't always afford that
luxury.
If people contact Mike Blasingame, one of the discussions will be how to
handle the support here on campus.
Certainly a centralized support area would make a lot of sense.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Greco [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:31 PM
To: 'Walt Hagmaier'; 'Zane Cooper'; [hidden email]
Cc: 'Mike Blasingame'
Subject: RE: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

What would be needed is everyone to agree that that is what we need and then
it would be a standard. this is Berkeley and we all know that is not going
to happen.  every one here wants the chance to be different. If I could have
an exchange server I would not have to manage.. But who is going to
troubleshoot it and set my users up and make sure they are using it me so
once again it is more work even if Davis helps us I think the only way
something like this could happen is if we had a centralized IT department.
That did everyone's desktop support and made the decisions on applications
and operating systems. However at Berkeley we are all unique and have
different needs and use different tools to do the same thing. It's a
Catch-22 no matter what way we go.
Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Hagmaier [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:02 PM
To: 'Zane Cooper'; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: Mike Blasingame
Subject: RE: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Fyi, a year ago we did look at having one Exchange service for campus. We
weren't looking to run it from IST but were looking at having UCSF run it.
Eventually UCSF begged off.
However, I just heard yesterday from UC Davis that they are willing to
explore running our Exchange services for us if we're interested. If you
are, please Mike Blasingame to let him know and IST again will assist in
coordinating that effort.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

There is no centrally-provided Exchange service.  Departments that have
Exchange deployed operate their own server cluster, which may or may not be
collocated in the campus datacenter.  - Z

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lucy Greco
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Is there a campus server for exchange or would we have to set up an office
exchange server.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

I'm not familiar with IronPort (it's been a number of years since I had
anything to do with production mail systems) but a quick look indicates that
their hardware is essentially a server running FreeBSD with some kind of
hardened mail server software.. my blind guess would be Qmail, if they're as
paranoid about security as they seem.

So essentially you're running exactly the kind of configuration I was
describing, which has apparently now been completely productized and is sold
and supported by Cisco.  Very nice.

On a final (entirely on-topic) note before I stop hijacking the original
poster's thread, I wanted to say that I completely agree about Outlook
working best when connecting to an Exchange server.  I wouldn't be at all
surprised if many of the reported problems with Outlook simply disappeared
when switching over to Exchange.

-Bill Clark

> At Haas we migrated away from Sendmail for CommunigatePro (when IST
> did), and then again from CommunigatePro for Exchange.  I can say
> confidently that our Exchange 2007 deployment is much improved over our
2003 service.

> We haven't deployed Exchange Server 2010 yet so I can't speak to that.
> However, Exchange is trending in the improving direction with each
> major release (so far).  For example, Exchange 2010 Outlook Web Access
> client is supposed to be much improved with better compatibility with
> the Firefox and Safari browsers.
>
> You make an interesting point about adding a public-facing service in
> front of an Exchange cluster.  I did not mention before that our
> Microsoft Exchange environment is "front-ended" by IronPort email
> security appliances.  The IronPort appliances have been worth every penny
invested.

>  I receive monthly reports and the IronPorts are reliably blocking all
> of the bad stuff, which happens to be around 93% of the email the Haas
> School receives.  The IronPort appliances are very effective and the
> most accurate of any I've worked with.
>
> No one so far mentions Zimbra.  I was curious about that since it
> offers a very robust web client.  And it's built on an open-source
> stack (or it used to be).  We looked at Zimbra when we were migrating
> away from CommunigatePro.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Clark [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: Zane Cooper
> Cc: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same
> point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with
> Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef
> with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server
> (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust
> configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX
> mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then
> relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  
> Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and
> standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the
> integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It
> also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are
> sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number
> of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for
> diagnosing the problem.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>



 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Erik Klavon
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 02:54:34PM -0700, Walt Hagmaier wrote:
> Yes people here all want to be different, but we can't always afford that
> luxury. If people contact Mike Blasingame, one of the discussions
> will be how to handle the support here on campus. Certainly a
> centralized support area would make a lot of sense.

How will support for exchange be funded? Will it be a centrally funded
service (free to departments) or will it be recharge?

Erik

 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Walt Hagmaier
Recharge. Effectively the model we are exploring is getting a quote from
UCD, previously UCSF had quoted us $5/month/mailbox.
Then we need to figure out the rest like support/help desk. Then each group
needs to compare it with it costs themselves to run it. Often times people
don't track that cost particularly their staffs time spent on it.
In theory it should be cheaper to do as part of a multi-campus group, but
we'll see.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services
UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Klavon [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:21 PM
To: Walt Hagmaier
Cc: [hidden email]; 'Zane Cooper'; [hidden email];
'Mike Blasingame'
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 02:54:34PM -0700, Walt Hagmaier wrote:
> Yes people here all want to be different, but we can't always afford that
> luxury. If people contact Mike Blasingame, one of the discussions
> will be how to handle the support here on campus. Certainly a
> centralized support area would make a lot of sense.

How will support for exchange be funded? Will it be a centrally funded
service (free to departments) or will it be recharge?

Erik


 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Greg Merritt
In reply to this post by Erik Klavon
...meanwhile, the CalMail service is stunningly good, and  
incrementally -- almost silently -- continues to improve in slickness  
and features since it was established a couple of years ago.

It's not the whole integrated mail/calendar/director/etc. that  
Exchange offers, but it's about a bazillion times better than what  
uclink and other previous services ever even hoped to be, and is loads  
more than one might reasonably demand from a centralized e-mail system  
in an environment like ours.

IMHO. :)

-Greg

 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Graham Patterson

<Testimonial>
Although I don't need to escalate mail issues to the CalMail people very
often, the reply is usually quick, clear, and useful. Helps me sleep
better at night.
</Testimonial>

Graham

Greg Merritt wrote:

> ...meanwhile, the CalMail service is stunningly good, and  
> incrementally -- almost silently -- continues to improve in slickness  
> and features since it was established a couple of years ago.
>
> It's not the whole integrated mail/calendar/director/etc. that  
> Exchange offers, but it's about a bazillion times better than what  
> uclink and other previous services ever even hoped to be, and is loads  
> more than one might reasonably demand from a centralized e-mail system  
> in an environment like ours.
>
> IMHO. :)

--
Graham Patterson, Systems Administrator
Lawrence Hall of Science, UC Berkeley   510-643-2222
"...past the Tyranosaurus, the Mastodon, the mathematical puzzles, and
the meteorite..." - directions to my office.

 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Michael C. Nicol
In reply to this post by Walt Hagmaier
Claudia, All,

In COIS we have been using Outlook clients back-ended by the CalMail for
several years.  In most cases, we use POP3 and re-direct the .pst files
(local Mail Store) to the file servers which we back up and encrypt using
UCBackup. Tivoli BAC version 5.5 or higher has integrated open file support
using either windows Volume Shadow Service or Tivoli's VLSA.  If you use
VLSA you will need to provide a percentage of your disk space on the file
server as a cache.  Once you upgrade to the newer versions of Tivoli all of
the 4 and 8 fail errors associated with open files disappear.  In addition
to Tivoli, our logoff scripts backup any additional local files needed to
restore the email client incase the user's node suffers a catastrophic
failure.

The method we use is not supported by Microsoft because they designed .pst
files to work locally and do not recommend redirecting them anywhere, but
doing so centralizes the backup of the files, and cuts down on the number of
Tivoli Clients and the administration thereof.  It also allows us the
ability to accommodate the needs of our departments and provide access to
the archives of terminated employees when appropriate.  We have layered
controls in place to do so.

If the Outlook client loses its connection to the file server while writing,
the user's .pst becomes corrupted.  Usually, when the user closes and
re-opens Outlook, the client re-establishes its connection to the remotely
stored .pst and will repair itself automatically.  Occasionally one of our
techs will need to intervene manually and use Outlook's built-in repair
utility.  This is usually the case if the file size exceeds 2GB and the
client's Outlook client was updated from 2000 to 2003.  If the file size is
excessive, the tech copies the file to the local machine to run the repair
utility.  In contradiction Jonathan Felder's original response to this
thread, I cannot cite a single instance across our ~60 departments where
this has not been successful in the past 6 years.

We train our users to create mail archives annually.  This keeps their
working set small.

In addition, several of our users are configured to use IMAP, which has the
advantage of eliminating the situation that can cause corruption, but also
limits the ability to provide archived email to the Department (when
appropriate).

One of the keen advantages of Outlook is that a single corrupted email
received doesn't corrupt the entire inbox as was the case with Eudora,
because the program's metabase and email stores are separate.

There are several advantages that Exchange can offer.  Did you know that in
addition to a single point of administration for mail/calendaring/directory
services, etc., that for Windows clients using Outlook it can facilitate
offline operation?  You could write and respond to your email as you commute
on BART...  The email will sit in the "Outbox" until the node connects to a
network, and then be sent.  Any changes will be synched auto-magically with
the mail-store on the exchange server.


  Michael C. Nicol
 Systems Administrator III, MCSE
 (510)585-1575
 




-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walt Hagmaier
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:29 PM
To: 'Erik Klavon'
Cc: 'Mike Blasingame'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Recharge. Effectively the model we are exploring is getting a quote from
UCD, previously UCSF had quoted us $5/month/mailbox.
Then we need to figure out the rest like support/help desk. Then each group
needs to compare it with it costs themselves to run it. Often times people
don't track that cost particularly their staffs time spent on it.
In theory it should be cheaper to do as part of a multi-campus group, but
we'll see.

Walt Hagmaier
Manager of Platforms, Storage and Data Center Services UC Berkeley
(510) 643-8609

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Klavon [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:21 PM
To: Walt Hagmaier
Cc: [hidden email]; 'Zane Cooper'; [hidden email];
'Mike Blasingame'
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 02:54:34PM -0700, Walt Hagmaier wrote:
> Yes people here all want to be different, but we can't always afford
> that luxury. If people contact Mike Blasingame, one of the discussions
> will be how to handle the support here on campus. Certainly a
> centralized support area would make a lot of sense.

How will support for exchange be funded? Will it be a centrally funded
service (free to departments) or will it be recharge?

Erik


 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Bill Clark
In reply to this post by Greg Merritt
I use the CalMail web interface (the SquirrelMail one, no less!) almost
exclusively (the exception being mobile access from my phone, for which I
use regular IMAP with Apple Mail) and find it entirely adequate for my
email needs.  The only problem I ever have is that the search
functionality doesn't work well with large amounts of mail, but I've
recently (a few months back) taken to deleting all of my email anyway
(after having transferred any important information to some other
information system such as our Wiki) so that's less of an issue than it
once was.

Now, if we had an internal, encrypted IM server (e.g. Jabber) inside the
University that could be used for quick throw-away communications, the
amount of email I had to deal with would be reduced to a trickle and would
consist primarily of Cc's of trouble ticket requests and other automated
messages I usually immediately delete.

I had previously been envious of those departments with Exchange servers
because of the CalAgenda integration, but the Oracle Calendar replacement
(Bedework I think?) looks to have sufficient mobile device support for my
needs.

I look forward to the day when email just goes away as a significant mode
of communication.  Until then, kudos to the CalMail team for building (and
maintaining and improving) such a reliable system.

-Bill Clark

> ...meanwhile, the CalMail service is stunningly good, and
> incrementally -- almost silently -- continues to improve in slickness
> and features since it was established a couple of years ago.
>
> It's not the whole integrated mail/calendar/director/etc. that
> Exchange offers, but it's about a bazillion times better than what
> uclink and other previous services ever even hoped to be, and is loads
> more than one might reasonably demand from a centralized e-mail system
> in an environment like ours.
>
> IMHO. :)
>
> -Greg
>
>
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> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Greg Merritt
On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Bill Clark wrote:

> I've recently (a few months back) taken to deleting all of my email  
> anyway


Wow, you delete e-mail?  Really?

:)

-Greg (e-mail hoarder)

 
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Bill Clark
I know!  I'm probably the only one, right? ;)

I used to just keep everything for all eternity (but did at least move it
out of my inbox) until our CAO mentioned that she deletes every email
after she's dealt with whatever issue it pertains to, and that way she
doesn't have to ever worry about having restricted data in her mail or on
her machine.

I do keep all of my sent mail, so I find that by having a policy of
deleting all of my incoming mail I have to either deal with the issue and
send a reply (which encourages better responsiveness) or archive the
relevant information to a more permanent, shared system like our intranet
or wiki.  I also end up using my inbox as a to-do list.  Overall I've been
quite happy with the new approach, and have only been hit a few times with
the situation where I wanted a piece of information that I'd already
deleted (usually because I didn't actually have web access to a trouble
ticket thread that I'd been receiving email replies on.)

-Bill Clark

> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Bill Clark wrote:
>
>> I've recently (a few months back) taken to deleting all of my email
>> anyway
>
>
> Wow, you delete e-mail?  Really?
>
> :)
>
> -Greg (e-mail hoarder)
>
>
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>
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Re: [Micronet] Exchange, other MTAs, Email Security, etc.

Beth Muramoto
Hey, I keep all my sent mail too.  I keep my inbox under control,  
relatively speaking, but I use my Sent Mail in the same way as you do,  
Bill.  Glad to hear someone else does too.  My husband is like your  
CAO.  I admire the cavalier nature of doing that, but have an  
inability to accomplish it.

Beth


On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Bill Clark wrote:

> I know!  I'm probably the only one, right? ;)
>
> I used to just keep everything for all eternity (but did at least  
> move it
> out of my inbox) until our CAO mentioned that she deletes every email
> after she's dealt with whatever issue it pertains to, and that way she
> doesn't have to ever worry about having restricted data in her mail  
> or on
> her machine.
>
> I do keep all of my sent mail, so I find that by having a policy of
> deleting all of my incoming mail I have to either deal with the  
> issue and
> send a reply (which encourages better responsiveness) or archive the
> relevant information to a more permanent, shared system like our  
> intranet
> or wiki.  I also end up using my inbox as a to-do list.  Overall  
> I've been
> quite happy with the new approach, and have only been hit a few  
> times with
> the situation where I wanted a piece of information that I'd already
> deleted (usually because I didn't actually have web access to a  
> trouble
> ticket thread that I'd been receiving email replies on.)
>
> -Bill Clark
>
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Bill Clark wrote:
>>
>>> I've recently (a few months back) taken to deleting all of my email
>>> anyway
>>
>>
>> Wow, you delete e-mail?  Really?
>>
>> :)
>>
>> -Greg (e-mail hoarder)
>>
>>
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>> server:
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>> unsubscribe
>> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,  
>> please
>> visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
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>> viewable, and
>> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  
>> This
>> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>>
>
>
>
>
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***********************************************
Beth Muramoto
Computer Resource Specialist
Graduate School of Education
University of California, Berkeley
1650 Tolman Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720
Email:  mailto:[hidden email]
Phone:  (510) 643-0203
Fax:  (510) 643-6239

The Formula for Success:  Underpromise, overdeliver

                                - Tom Peters

***********************************************




 
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