Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Zane C Cooper
I wonder what's going on in your case.  I've been using Outlook and also Outlook with Exchange Server for the past seven years.  Not once have I lost any data.

We chose Outlook and Exchange Server at the Haas School of Business several years ago because our customers demand a very high degree of integration between various services.  Our graduate students in particular are already quite familiar with Outlook/Exchange.  Through deployment of a combination of products, the Haas Enterprise Computing & Service Management unit integrated email, personal calendars, people directories, the School's various event calendars, iPhones, and collaboration support (SharePoint).  We have all of this capability now and we are adding more integration support with Outlook/Exchange, including services like room and equipment reservations, catering and media services requests, information kiosks and digital signage.


Zane Cooper
Chief Technology Officer &
Director, Enterprise Computing & Service Management
Haas School of Business
University of California Berkeley
(510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Felder
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:50 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook POP/IMAP questions

Stay away...remember those responses about corrupt inboxes and thunderbird...yeah.

Outlook, if used long enough, will play pacman with your mail and eat it.

On 6/15/2010 9:18 AM, Claudia Waters wrote:

> Dear Micronetters,
>
> Thanks for responding to my Thunderbird query. I'd like to ask the
> same questions about Outlook, if I may.
>
> /1. Do you use imap or pop /
>
> /2. Do you store mail files on a server/fileshare or local c drive /
>
> /3. Do you compact regularly or automatically. /
>
> /4. Have you dealt with corrupt inboxes or draft folders/
>
> / /
>
> Why did you choose Outlook (over Thunderbird or another program)?
>
> Why did you choose Thunderbird (over Outlook or another program)?
>
> I will summarize the responses to these questions and the previous
> emails on Thunderbird.
>
> Thanks very much for all the replies.
>
> Claudia
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
> server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Bill Clark
I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same point
as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with Outlook for
directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef with Exchange is
that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server (or did, last time I
used it anywhere.)  The most robust configurations I've seen all use some
sort of higher-performance UNIX mail server as the primary public-facing
server, which would then relay mail (over a private connection) to an
internal Exchange server.  Then you get the best of both worlds: the
performance, security, and standards-compliance of
Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the integrated application support and
rich feature set of Exchange.  It also allows you to have stricter control
over the way messages are sent to the Exchange server, which can
significantly reduce the number of data corruption issues (or at least
give you a better platform for diagnosing the problem.)

-Bill Clark

> I wonder what's going on in your case.  I've been using Outlook and also
> Outlook with Exchange Server for the past seven years.  Not once have I
> lost any data.
>
> We chose Outlook and Exchange Server at the Haas School of Business
> several years ago because our customers demand a very high degree of
> integration between various services.  Our graduate students in particular
> are already quite familiar with Outlook/Exchange.  Through deployment of a
> combination of products, the Haas Enterprise Computing & Service
> Management unit integrated email, personal calendars, people directories,
> the School's various event calendars, iPhones, and collaboration support
> (SharePoint).  We have all of this capability now and we are adding more
> integration support with Outlook/Exchange, including services like room
> and equipment reservations, catering and media services requests,
> information kiosks and digital signage.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer &
> Director, Enterprise Computing & Service Management
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
> Felder
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:50 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook POP/IMAP questions
>
> Stay away...remember those responses about corrupt inboxes and
> thunderbird...yeah.
>
> Outlook, if used long enough, will play pacman with your mail and eat it.
>
> On 6/15/2010 9:18 AM, Claudia Waters wrote:
>> Dear Micronetters,
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my Thunderbird query. I'd like to ask the
>> same questions about Outlook, if I may.
>>
>> /1. Do you use imap or pop /
>>
>> /2. Do you store mail files on a server/fileshare or local c drive /
>>
>> /3. Do you compact regularly or automatically. /
>>
>> /4. Have you dealt with corrupt inboxes or draft folders/
>>
>> / /
>>
>> Why did you choose Outlook (over Thunderbird or another program)?
>>
>> Why did you choose Thunderbird (over Outlook or another program)?
>>
>> I will summarize the responses to these questions and the previous
>> emails on Thunderbird.
>>
>> Thanks very much for all the replies.
>>
>> Claudia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>> server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.
>> This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
>> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This
> means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Jonathan Felder
In reply to this post by Zane C Cooper
I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they
end up with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...


On 6/15/2010 11:33 AM, Zane Cooper wrote:

> I wonder what's going on in your case.  I've been using Outlook and also Outlook with Exchange Server for the past seven years.  Not once have I lost any data.
>
> We chose Outlook and Exchange Server at the Haas School of Business several years ago because our customers demand a very high degree of integration between various services.  Our graduate students in particular are already quite familiar with Outlook/Exchange.  Through deployment of a combination of products, the Haas Enterprise Computing&  Service Management unit integrated email, personal calendars, people directories, the School's various event calendars, iPhones, and collaboration support (SharePoint).  We have all of this capability now and we are adding more integration support with Outlook/Exchange, including services like room and equipment reservations, catering and media services requests, information kiosks and digital signage.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer&
> Director, Enterprise Computing&  Service Management
> Haas School of Business
> University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Felder
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:50 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook POP/IMAP questions
>
> Stay away...remember those responses about corrupt inboxes and thunderbird...yeah.
>
> Outlook, if used long enough, will play pacman with your mail and eat it.
>
> On 6/15/2010 9:18 AM, Claudia Waters wrote:
>> Dear Micronetters,
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my Thunderbird query. I'd like to ask the
>> same questions about Outlook, if I may.
>>
>> /1. Do you use imap or pop /
>>
>> /2. Do you store mail files on a server/fileshare or local c drive /
>>
>> /3. Do you compact regularly or automatically. /
>>
>> /4. Have you dealt with corrupt inboxes or draft folders/
>>
>> / /
>>
>> Why did you choose Outlook (over Thunderbird or another program)?
>>
>> Why did you choose Thunderbird (over Outlook or another program)?
>>
>> I will summarize the responses to these questions and the previous
>> emails on Thunderbird.
>>
>> Thanks very much for all the replies.
>>
>> Claudia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>> server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:

To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Michael Chung
In reply to this post by Bill Clark
Hi Bill,

The mixed configuration you describe is similar to how we operate Exchange at Haas. We use public-facing Cisco IronPort appliances to handle inbound/outbound mail that is passed to/from our Exchange Client Access Servers. Client access via OWA or Outlook (using RCP over HTTP) is directed thru our CAS servers. Our IronPorts and CAS boxes are managed behind a F5 BIG-IP load balancer. While Exchange alone does not have very robust spam filtering or load balancing capabilities, we've been very pleased with Exchange + IronPort + F5.  In May, our IronPorts handled around 15 million incoming e-mails. Around 1.1 million of these messages were clean and passed thru to Exchange.

Client access has been sore point with Exchange in the past; requiring Internet Explorer to support a number of OWA features was often a deal breaker for many folks. However, Exchange 2010 supports a full featured OWA experience on any major browser (including Safari). We're currently running Exchange 2007, but hope to move to 2010 in the next 12 months: the multiple browser support would be a big plus for our customers.

Michael Chung
Systems Administrator
Haas Enterprise Computing & Service Management
[hidden email] | 510-643-3887


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Clark
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:44 AM
To: Zane Cooper
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

I'm no fan of Microsoft products, but I was going to make the same point as you about the convenience of Exchange's integration with Outlook for directory services, calendaring, etc.  My biggest beef with Exchange is that it makes for a truly awful primary mail server (or did, last time I used it anywhere.)  The most robust configurations I've seen all use some sort of higher-performance UNIX mail server as the primary public-facing server, which would then relay mail (over a private connection) to an internal Exchange server.  Then you get the best of both worlds: the performance, security, and standards-compliance of Sendmail/Postfix/Qmail/etc. with the integrated application support and rich feature set of Exchange.  It also allows you to have stricter control over the way messages are sent to the Exchange server, which can significantly reduce the number of data corruption issues (or at least give you a better platform for diagnosing the problem.)

-Bill Clark

> I wonder what's going on in your case.  I've been using Outlook and
> also Outlook with Exchange Server for the past seven years.  Not once
> have I lost any data.
>
> We chose Outlook and Exchange Server at the Haas School of Business
> several years ago because our customers demand a very high degree of
> integration between various services.  Our graduate students in
> particular are already quite familiar with Outlook/Exchange.  Through
> deployment of a combination of products, the Haas Enterprise Computing
> & Service Management unit integrated email, personal calendars, people
> directories, the School's various event calendars, iPhones, and
> collaboration support (SharePoint).  We have all of this capability
> now and we are adding more integration support with Outlook/Exchange,
> including services like room and equipment reservations, catering and
> media services requests, information kiosks and digital signage.
>
>
> Zane Cooper
> Chief Technology Officer &
> Director, Enterprise Computing & Service Management Haas School of
> Business University of California Berkeley
> (510) 642-7280 (o) / (510) 642-5307 (f)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Jonathan Felder
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:50 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook POP/IMAP questions
>
> Stay away...remember those responses about corrupt inboxes and
> thunderbird...yeah.
>
> Outlook, if used long enough, will play pacman with your mail and eat it.
>
> On 6/15/2010 9:18 AM, Claudia Waters wrote:
>> Dear Micronetters,
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my Thunderbird query. I'd like to ask the
>> same questions about Outlook, if I may.
>>
>> /1. Do you use imap or pop /
>>
>> /2. Do you store mail files on a server/fileshare or local c drive /
>>
>> /3. Do you compact regularly or automatically. /
>>
>> /4. Have you dealt with corrupt inboxes or draft folders/
>>
>> / /
>>
>> Why did you choose Outlook (over Thunderbird or another program)?
>>
>> Why did you choose Thunderbird (over Outlook or another program)?
>>
>> I will summarize the responses to these questions and the previous
>> emails on Thunderbird.
>>
>> Thanks very much for all the replies.
>>
>> Claudia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
>> server:
>>
>> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>>
>> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>>
>> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
>> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.
>> This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your
>> bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
> server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  
> This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- The following was automatically added to this message by the list
> server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
> meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable,
> and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  
> This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,
> prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>



 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.

 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Jon Forrest
One thing people need to be aware of regarding
Exchange, is that once you start with Exchange
it's very hard to move away. The campus was
able to move from Sendmail to Communigate Pro
to Cyrus/Exim with minimal pain to users.
If Exchange had entered the picture in there,
then that would have pretty much prevented
migration to anything else.

Business people love Outlook/Exchange but
it's like a religion. It's also a huge wad of
closed-source software that requires
frequent sacrifices of small animals and money
to keep going.

Cordially,
--
Jon Forrest
Research Computing Support
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
94720-1460
510-643-1032
[hidden email]

 
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To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:

http://micronet.berkeley.edu

Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have known you in the past.
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Lucy Greco
Small animals last time I checked Microsoft does well in both bear and bull
markets.

Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
University of California, Berkeley
http://www.attlc.berkeley.edu
(510) 643-7591


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jon Forrest
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
Capabilities

One thing people need to be aware of regarding
Exchange, is that once you start with Exchange
it's very hard to move away. The campus was
able to move from Sendmail to Communigate Pro
to Cyrus/Exim with minimal pain to users.
If Exchange had entered the picture in there,
then that would have pretty much prevented
migration to anything else.

Business people love Outlook/Exchange but
it's like a religion. It's also a huge wad of
closed-source software that requires
frequent sacrifices of small animals and money
to keep going.

Cordially,
--
Jon Forrest
Research Computing Support
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
94720-1460
510-643-1032
[hidden email]

 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

Richard DeShong-2
In reply to this post by Jon Forrest
I have always been curious as to why Microsoft hasn't allowed the sacrifice
of larger animals - it would seem to be an obvious efficiency step.

--
Richard DeShong

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Forrest

<snip> that requires
frequent sacrifices of small animals and money
to keep going.

Cordially,
--
Jon Forrest
Research Computing Support
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
94720-1460
510-643-1032
[hidden email]

 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  This means
these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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