Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Zane C Cooper
That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files - in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.  I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge sizes.

When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any problems with Apple's products either.

- Z
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Felder
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:46 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration Capabilities

I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Claudia A. WATERS
We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to make
Outlook function.

I have a question:
How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that only a
large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there is a
service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this awhile
back, but that was during another period of downsizing.

Thanks for this helpful discussion.

Claudia

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with
Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files -
in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.
I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge
sizes.

When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally
choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and
calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
problems with Apple's products either.

- Z
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Felder
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:46 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
Capabilities

I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up
with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...


 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Claudia A. WATERS
I meant to say, how many users is optimal to make an Exchange server
optimal?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Claudia
Waters
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to make
Outlook function.

I have a question:
How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that only a
large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there is a
service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this awhile
back, but that was during another period of downsizing.

Thanks for this helpful discussion.

Claudia

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with
Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files -
in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.
I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge
sizes.

When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally
choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and
calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
problems with Apple's products either.

- Z
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Felder
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:46 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
Capabilities

I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up
with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Richard DeShong-2
In reply to this post by Claudia A. WATERS
I would like to point out, from a general support point of view, that
earlier versions of Outlook (<2003?) create a PST file that uses a format
that limits its size to around 2GB.  From 2003? on, the new PST file format
does not have that limit.  Even more - when you upgrade from an earlier
version, it doesn't change the file format - unless you start from new and
import the old.  This may cause even 2007 clients to balk at the 2GB limit.

And then from an organizational point of view, I always wonder what
institutional knowledge is trapped in all those email archives.  And then
how much wasted backup space is spent on copies of everyone's sent items and
various "what are you doing for lunch" type of emails.

--
Richard DeShong, Information Systems Analyst
Athletic Study Center, UC Berkeley
164 Chavez Student Center
510-642-5123 office
asc.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Claudia Waters

We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to make
Outlook function.

I have a question:
How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that only a
large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there is a
service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this awhile
back, but that was during another period of downsizing.

Thanks for this helpful discussion.


-----Original Message-----
From: Zane Cooper

That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with
Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files -
in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.
I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge
sizes.

When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally
choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and
calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
problems with Apple's products either.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Felder

I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up
with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...
employers, and people who have known you in the past.



 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Greg Merritt

On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Richard DeShong wrote:

>  And then
> how much wasted backup space is spent on copies of everyone's sent  
> items and
> various "what are you doing for lunch" type of emails.


Most backup software cannot copy a .pst file that's currently opened  
in Outlook (at least the last time I checked).

A volume shadow copy method has to be used in order to back up  
live .pst files.

-Greg

 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

tedcrum
In reply to this post by Zane C Cooper
(Yes, 2003.) And even Outlook 2003 retains the 2GB limit when used as
an IMAP client.

Ootlook (as it's called in Canada) 2007 and later have the larger
20GB limit even with IMAP.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/830336

-tc

>I would like to point out, from a general support point of view, that
>earlier versions of Outlook (<2003?) create a PST file that uses a format
>that limits its size to around 2GB.  From 2003? on, the new PST file format
>does not have that limit.  Even more - when you upgrade from an earlier
>version, it doesn't change the file format - unless you start from new and
>import the old.  This may cause even 2007 clients to balk at the 2GB limit.
>
>And then from an organizational point of view, I always wonder what
>institutional knowledge is trapped in all those email archives.  And then
>how much wasted backup space is spent on copies of everyone's sent items and
>various "what are you doing for lunch" type of emails.
>
>--
>Richard DeShong, Information Systems Analyst
>Athletic Study Center, UC Berkeley
>164 Chavez Student Center
>510-642-5123 office
>asc.berkeley.edu
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Claudia Waters
>
>We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to make
>Outlook function.
>
>I have a question:
>How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
>cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that only a
>large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there is a
>service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this awhile
>back, but that was during another period of downsizing.
>
>Thanks for this helpful discussion.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Zane Cooper
>
>That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with
>Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files -
>in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.
>I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge
>sizes.
>
>When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally
>choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and
>calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
>problems with Apple's products either.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Felder
>
>I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up
>with some problem that corrupts the mail store.
>
>Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.
>
>I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
>calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...
>employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
>
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>
>To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or
>unsubscribe from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming
>meetings, please visit the Micronet Web site:
>
>http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
>Messages you send to this mailing list are public and
>world-viewable, and the list's archives can be browsed and searched
>on the Internet.  This means these messages can be viewed by (among
>others) your bosses, prospective employers, and people who have
>known you in the past.



 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Richard DeShong-2
In reply to this post by Greg Merritt
Not sure about "most".  I use Retrospect.  It has an Open-File option that
seems to do fine backing up PST's.  Also, I was recently researching imaging
s/w and several were advertising themselves as usefull for general purpose
backup.  They spoke of being a more efficient way of handling things like
PST files.

-Richard DeShong

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Merritt

On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Richard DeShong wrote:

>  And then
> how much wasted backup space is spent on copies of everyone's sent  
> items and
> various "what are you doing for lunch" type of emails.


Most backup software cannot copy a .pst file that's currently opened  
in Outlook (at least the last time I checked).

A volume shadow copy method has to be used in order to back up  
live .pst files.

-Greg


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Greg Merritt *
Excellent!

Our remaining active installations of Retrospect are older versions,  
and did not support this.  It's good to hear that it works with  
current versions.

-Greg


On Jun 15, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Richard DeShong wrote:

> Not sure about "most".  I use Retrospect.  It has an Open-File  
> option that
> seems to do fine backing up PST's.  Also, I was recently researching  
> imaging
> s/w and several were advertising themselves as usefull for general  
> purpose
> backup.  They spoke of being a more efficient way of handling things  
> like
> PST files.
>
> -Richard DeShong


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Michael O'Hare
In reply to this post by Claudia A. WATERS
Limit pst files to how big...what's a good rule of thumb, please?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Claudia
Waters
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to make
Outlook function.

I have a question:
How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that only a
large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there is a
service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this awhile
back, but that was during another period of downsizing.

Thanks for this helpful discussion.

Claudia

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use with
Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller files -
in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files by year.
I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow to huge
sizes.

When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I generally
choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple email and
calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
problems with Apple's products either.

- Z
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Felder
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:46 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
Capabilities

I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably they end up
with some problem that corrupts the mail store.

Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.

I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...


 
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Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-viewable, and
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these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses, prospective
employers, and people who have known you in the past.


 
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Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients

Robert Hiramoto
Hi Michael,

I've had my users try to keep each pst file smaller than 2gb. Anything  
above that and you run a risk of pst files not opening properly (in  
outlook 2003).

I've got one user who has a combined total of 17gb of email over a few  
pst files and their email gets corrupted very often. Not fun to support.

-R

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2010, at 9:55 PM, "Michael O'Hare" <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

>
> Limit pst files to how big...what's a good rule of thumb, please?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Claudia
> Waters
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:51 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients
>
> We have also found that we needed to limit the size of pst files to  
> make
> Outlook function.
>
> I have a question:
> How many resources do you have to devote to make an Exchange server
> cost-effective?  Given Operational Excellence, it would seem that  
> only a
> large organization could justify the resources.  I don't think there  
> is a
> service on campus for this, is there?  I know I did ask for this  
> awhile
> back, but that was during another period of downsizing.
>
> Thanks for this helpful discussion.
>
> Claudia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zane  
> Cooper
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:55 AM
> To: Jonathan Felder; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook vs other email clients
>
> That may indeed be the case, given that Outlook is optimized for use  
> with
> Exchange.  In practice, I break large PST files into several smaller  
> files -
> in my case the archived email is grouped into individual PST files  
> by year.
> I also regularly back up all PST files.  I don't let PST files grow  
> to huge
> sizes.
>
> When I have a use case that requires a stand-alone email client, I  
> generally
> choose Thunderbird, Evolution.  I've also used the native Apple  
> email and
> calendar apps with Exchange quite a lot.  I've never encountered any
> problems with Apple's products either.
>
> - Z
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of  
> Jonathan
> Felder
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:46 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Micronet] Outlook/Exchange Reliability & Integration
> Capabilities
>
> I've had several clients use stand alone outlook, and inevitably  
> they end up
> with some problem that corrupts the mail store.
>
> Your mileage with an exchange server might be different.
>
> I've seen many different problems.  Problems with contact lists, the
> calendaring functionality, mail, security, etc...
>
>
>
> ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list  
> server:
>
> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or  
> unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,  
> please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
>
> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-
> viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  
> This means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,  
> prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list  
> server:
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> To learn more about Micronet, including how to subscribe to or  
> unsubscribe
> from its mailing list and how to find out about upcoming meetings,  
> please
> visit the Micronet Web site:
>
> http://micronet.berkeley.edu
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> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-
> viewable, and
> the list's archives can be browsed and searched on the Internet.  
> This means
> these messages can be viewed by (among others) your bosses,  
> prospective
> employers, and people who have known you in the past.
>
>
>
> ---
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> Messages you send to this mailing list are public and world-
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> the past.

 
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